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what's the game plan Kevin was a nice

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run care how to close out someday nobody

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wins them all what are you oh I have so

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many names see call me dad nobody plays

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a deal-making Devil better than Al

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Pacino and no one plays an unsuspecting

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dupe better than Keanu Reeves it's from

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the movie The Devil's Advocate and it

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fits perfectly with today's

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controversial and just incredibly

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amazing and for me paradigm changing

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interview with dr. Tom Zinser as Souls

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we have the choice and evil does not run

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our life evil does not have power over

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us and so as souls we do have that power

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to deal with evil to stop it to refuse

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it it's one of the reasons I said that

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distinction between darkness and evil is

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so important so our natural state is to

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have likes and dislikes that

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inadvertently not our fault but it

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happens we block that light in one way

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or another and sometimes we connect with

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those blockages more than we connect

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with the light and it all becomes a

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confused state what I hear you saying

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then is that we can begin talking about

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evil darkness as just blockages of the

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light that of course you always had the

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power to remove those it makes them a

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lot less scary and and we do need that

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we grown up in our Western culture to be

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frightened of darkness and evil to think

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of it as so powerful to stay away from

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that topic for fear that it's gonna get

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us people need to know it doesn't have

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that power fall and I hope this came

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through in the interview is this idea of

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the contract because that is not only a

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method of deception that seems to be in

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play but it's been enshrined in our

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culture through

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movies as being don't make that contract

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with the with the devil you could never

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break it and what Jared says and you

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prove in your work is that no there's

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there's no such contract it's null and

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void there it's unenforceable just all

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we have to say I choose to go to the

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light and it's all over that's right yes

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welcome to skeptic oh where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics I'm your host Alex Karras

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and today we're joined by Tom Zinser in

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1987 dr. Tom Zinser was a clinical

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psychologist and hypnotherapist in Grand

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Rapids Michigan and like a lot of

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therapists like a lot of people helpers

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Tom wanted to see his patients get

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better but they weren't at least they

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weren't getting better as quickly or as

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often as he felt they should so Tom as

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he tells it was almost to the point of

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giving up then a part-time secretary in

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his office and Kathryn came to him with

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a rather remarkable proposal that we're

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going to hear about and what followed

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was a 15-year collaboration that changed

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Tom's practice certainly changed the

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lives of hundreds and hundreds of his

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clients and completely changed his

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worldview as well now I'm not so sure

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what it did for his reputation as a

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clinical psychologist among his

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colleagues but that's almost another

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story maybe one we will get into as well

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because Tom's 15-year collaboration

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turned out to be with a spirit enemy

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named Jared who consulted with Tom about

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the problems his patients were facing

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and suggested specific ways to help them

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overcome traumas relieve anxieties and

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generally live a happier more for

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in life dr. Zins book again is titled

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soul centered healing a psychologist

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extraordinary journey into the realms of

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subpersonalities spirits and past lives

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it's I use a term game-changer too often

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but it's an unbelievably significant

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piece of work and I'm super excited to

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have him here today Tom thanks so much

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for joining me well you're welcome and

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thanks for inviting me I said I'm a

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longtime listener so it's a pleasure to

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meet you at least in video if not person

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yeah I was I was blown away to think

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that you've been listening to this show

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when I dug into your your experience

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that you've had here and the kind of

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clinical work that you've done we're

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going to get into that a minute but I

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think that's a big part of the story

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that I want to get out there right off

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the bat is you're a clinician a highly

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trained professional and you're doing

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all the stuff that kind of normal

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psychologists do people come in and talk

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to you about their problems and then all

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this other stuff we're gonna talk about

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that it's kind of layered on top of that

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so that might even be a good place to

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begin dr. Zins or tell people a little

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bit about your professional background

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your training your credentials just so

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people know that part of who you are

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yeah I think even to be clear from the

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start as I practiced psychology in the

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early eighties once I began working with

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Jared that crossed a whole different

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line in which I really was not

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practicing psychology as such any longer

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what I was learning from Jared was

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layered in a sense on top of that in

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terms of the psychic and spiritual

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dimensions the energetic dimensions so

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in the beginning I worked as a

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hypnotherapist mainly focused on

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dissociative kind of disorders but I

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just want to interject I just want

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people to understand because I when I

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got into your your stuff

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this is the process I always go through

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I'm usually super excited and blown away

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and then a little alarm bell goes off in

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my head and goes wait a minute wait a

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minute there's a lot of kind of shady

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people out there is this guy legit in

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the way that normal people would just

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come at it does he have an advanced

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degree I mean did he go through the

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proper training is he is he legit in

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that way and and so I had those

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questions and for me those questions

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were answered but I'd like you to kind

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of answer him again what are your

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professional credentials well I did my

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undergraduate work at the University of

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Notre Dame and that was and basically

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was called the great books program a

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very broad field humanities but then I

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went on afterwards to get my master's

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degree with an emotionally disturbed

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children and after a gain my master's in

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teaching for a year I went on for my

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doctoral studies at Texas A&M in

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counseling psychology so I think my

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dissertation and began practice as an

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intern here in Grand Rapids in 1975 and

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then worked at the psychiatric hospital

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for several years before and in private

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practice and some private practice that

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I really practiced hypnosis and really

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attempting to work with people who had

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been traumatized whether a childhood or

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adolescence or even later and then that

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led you as you just mentioned a little

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bit ago into this work with dissociative

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disorders which is in and of itself

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highly controversial I kind of gleaned

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from your book that it wasn't quite as

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controversial when you first started

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it's not like you were jumping into some

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trend you had just kind of discovered it

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on your own so dissociative disorder so

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people know split personality or

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multiple personality as its portrayed in

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the movies is how it's been popularized

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but from a kind of strain on

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psychological

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Nicolle perspective it's now recognised

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that people do have different kinds of

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disassociative disorders that lead to

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stress in their life so do you want to

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kind of help people understand that

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whole thing when I began I learned about

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an approach to therapy called ego-state

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therapy and this is an approach that

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recognizes that we all have

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subpersonalities the multiple

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personality which was the term back then

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in a sense is an extreme case of

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subpersonalities so the issue was

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treating people through hypnosis making

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contact with these sub personalities and

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helping these sub personalities to

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relieve the pain or hurt or distress or

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fear that they carry and it's these

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personalities that we were bringing back

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to integrate with the self so multiple

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personality is an extreme but it's

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basically saying we all have sub

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personalities created I kind of gleaned

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from the book that there was this kind

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of continuum we all love you go Sates we

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all love the gatekeeper we all have the

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protector we all have that it just

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hasn't gone to the extent that it has or

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is that not really a good way to look at

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it is it really something come

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completely different when it becomes a

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problem for people no we are talking

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about a continuum and most of the

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peoples that I work with as clients they

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were not multiple personality or

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dissociative identities of disorder as

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we thought today they were what we talk

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about normal everyday but as in

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childhood and in adolescents especially

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the ego self the identity is not well

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formed and those are very vulnerable

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times and so when a child or an

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adolescent is overwhelmed but just say

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they got embarrassed or humiliated at

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some point at eight years older or

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they've had an accident

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just normal traumas but if they are

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overwhelmed then a part may be created

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to take over until things can be

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stabilized and so the I think that one

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of the questions you're implying Alex we

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cannot predict what subpersonality will

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be created for a person it is a unique

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creation out of that person's own mind

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the situation what kind of distress is

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involved it just can't predict what you

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can predict someone is in trauma when

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overwhelmed the sub personality will be

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created in a way even that part of the

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book was very empowering to me in terms

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of understanding just general psychology

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why I get angry when my chrome doesn't

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refresh is I think that's rather

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irrational or why I think the weather

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should be the way that I need it to be

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and I look at the irrationality of that

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and I step back oh wow what was that

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reaction and I think your your book and

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even just because I wasn't familiar with

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this kind of egocentric kind of approach

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it just it kind of clicked for me in a

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very normal way that didn't scare me or

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make me feel like I was strange in any

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way but just that this was kind of a

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normal process that consciousness does

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to deal with things that come up so

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that's I don't want to make too big of a

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deal out of it but I guess I we want to

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make kind of a big deal out of it

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because I think it is the foundation for

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this clinical work that you do and again

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folks I can't stress enough you know dr.

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Zinser is doing clinical work he's

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trying to make these patients more

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effective in their life and what I love

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about this guy is he's constantly

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looking for new protocols and he's

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testing those in an appropriate way with

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his clients to see if it's more

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efficacious than the last so I don't

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know I think we do need to get all that

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out there well I would agree with you

273
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completely subpersonalities I think is

274
00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:15,030
an extreme

275
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:16,860
important concept for understanding

276
00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:21,440
ourselves but I would emphasize that

277
00:13:27,230 --> 00:13:23,700
subpersonalities whether what we might

278
00:13:30,170 --> 00:13:27,240
call ego stage limited all the way to

279
00:13:33,620 --> 00:13:30,180
multiple personality where you have

280
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:33,630
extreme alter personality that whole

281
00:13:42,070 --> 00:13:37,650
continuum it is not necessarily accepted

282
00:13:44,540 --> 00:13:42,080
fully by all of psychology or psychiatry

283
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:44,550
hold on right there I want you to speak

284
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:46,410
to that because part of what you're

285
00:13:52,820 --> 00:13:49,530
saying completely flies in the face of

286
00:13:55,130 --> 00:13:52,830
what a lot of people in the

287
00:13:57,290 --> 00:13:55,140
quote-unquote psychology community

288
00:13:59,720 --> 00:13:57,300
psychiatry community mental health

289
00:14:02,180 --> 00:13:59,730
community they are not on board with

290
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:02,190
this and and you really braise this

291
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:05,250
point very powerfully in your book and

292
00:14:10,930 --> 00:14:08,720
that is this what I always slam on as

293
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:10,940
don't even have a meaningful

294
00:14:14,930 --> 00:14:13,290
understanding of consciousness and I'm

295
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:14,940
not just throwing stones I'm saying it

296
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:17,700
isn't coherent of my inside of their own

297
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:20,160
framework so here you are doing

298
00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:22,320
hypnotherapy there we don't have any

299
00:14:27,470 --> 00:14:25,320
model for how or why hypnotherapy should

300
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:27,480
work so we let that into the tent and

301
00:14:31,550 --> 00:14:29,490
then at the same time we go yeah but

302
00:14:33,890 --> 00:14:31,560
it's all brain based biological robot

303
00:14:37,130 --> 00:14:33,900
meaningless universe stuff it's not

304
00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:37,140
really coherent well I would make the

305
00:14:42,770 --> 00:14:39,030
distinction first between the clinician

306
00:14:45,970 --> 00:14:42,780
and the acronym issue there are a number

307
00:14:48,620 --> 00:14:45,980
of therapies that are that accept

308
00:14:50,690 --> 00:14:48,630
subpersonalities and they call it parts

309
00:14:54,130 --> 00:14:50,700
therapy they call a transactional

310
00:14:57,230 --> 00:14:54,140
therapy asaji all are called it psycho

311
00:14:58,990 --> 00:14:57,240
synthesis there are a number of

312
00:15:01,700 --> 00:14:59,000
approaches that have recognized

313
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:01,710
subpersonalities but almost all of them

314
00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:04,110
or maybe all of them cannot come out of

315
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:06,120
the clinical tradition when you're

316
00:15:11,390 --> 00:15:09,210
actually working with people and in in

317
00:15:16,820 --> 00:15:11,400
the work you see these people kind of

318
00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:16,830
split the the academic and the empirical

319
00:15:23,390 --> 00:15:20,790
scientist side of psychology they can't

320
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:23,400
get a handle on this unless they want to

321
00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:26,880
come into the clinical and so you're not

322
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:28,520
you're going to find less

323
00:15:33,940 --> 00:15:31,040
acceptance in the academic and in the

324
00:15:37,540 --> 00:15:33,950
empirical science schools then you're

325
00:15:40,180 --> 00:15:37,550
going to find in the clinical so that's

326
00:15:42,270 --> 00:15:40,190
one big distinction this the clinical

327
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:42,280
area of psychology you're gonna see

328
00:15:47,530 --> 00:15:45,530
subpersonality be a more accepted

329
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:47,540
concept I'm glad you made that

330
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:49,250
distinction between the clinical and the

331
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:52,210
academic the boots on the ground folks

332
00:15:58,240 --> 00:15:55,910
see it they're not inclined to

333
00:15:59,980 --> 00:15:58,250
completely deny it and pretend like

334
00:16:01,990 --> 00:15:59,990
their experience does it matter so

335
00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:02,000
they're trying to explain it we see the

336
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:04,940
same thing with near-death experience

337
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:06,320
where the people are really making

338
00:16:11,410 --> 00:16:09,410
headway is the cardiology sis's I can't

339
00:16:14,170 --> 00:16:11,420
deny the fact that the person was dead

340
00:16:15,790 --> 00:16:14,180
that their heart stopped and then and

341
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:15,800
they I can't deny the fact that they

342
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:17,210
came back and were counted their

343
00:16:19,660 --> 00:16:19,010
resuscitation in a way that doesn't make

344
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:19,670
any sense

345
00:16:24,940 --> 00:16:21,890
so I have to investigate that and then

346
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:24,950
meanwhile you have the cognitive science

347
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:27,110
people and the other people saying well

348
00:16:32,110 --> 00:16:29,570
that just doesn't fit in our paradigm so

349
00:16:34,090 --> 00:16:32,120
we don't have to deal with it so the

350
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:34,100
related question of that and this is

351
00:16:39,250 --> 00:16:36,800
something I hammer on all the time I'm

352
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:39,260
skeptical but I really wanted to get

353
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:44,210
your take on it and that is how do they

354
00:16:51,190 --> 00:16:47,570
manage to hold on to such a silly

355
00:16:53,770 --> 00:16:51,200
ridiculous outdated view of

356
00:16:57,610 --> 00:16:53,780
consciousness so I hope you get what I

357
00:16:59,440 --> 00:16:57,620
mean there but tell me I think I clearly

358
00:17:02,020 --> 00:16:59,450
get it because it's one of the things

359
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:02,030
that has really preoccupied me since I

360
00:17:09,940 --> 00:17:04,730
finished my last book is what I would

361
00:17:12,010 --> 00:17:09,950
term this paradigm shift and in response

362
00:17:16,030 --> 00:17:12,020
to your question about what it is about

363
00:17:18,100 --> 00:17:16,040
these folks my sense alex is that when

364
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:18,110
it comes to the psychic a spirit

365
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:21,770
dimensions of self and reality ourselves

366
00:17:30,850 --> 00:17:27,050
as soul it leads to an all-or-none kind

367
00:17:33,790 --> 00:17:30,860
of line you're either all in or you're

368
00:17:36,340 --> 00:17:33,800
still hedging and the empirical

369
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:36,350
scientist today the cognitive

370
00:17:42,110 --> 00:17:39,440
psychologist the people who really fight

371
00:17:45,260 --> 00:17:42,120
against these kind of other

372
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:45,270
mansions they're facing that all-or-none

373
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:48,240
line because if you cross it

374
00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:50,850
if you cross it your world is going to

375
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:54,630
turn upside down if you if you consider

376
00:18:00,590 --> 00:17:57,450
yourself to be a soul who has past lives

377
00:18:02,570 --> 00:18:00,600
has lived past lies that is going to

378
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:02,580
change your way of thinking about who

379
00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:05,910
you are why certain things go on for you

380
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:08,790
the way they do what you may be about

381
00:18:14,810 --> 00:18:12,240
where you're headed all of that changes

382
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:14,820
if you cross the line and say you know I

383
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:16,500
think I've been around for more than one

384
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:22,290
lifetime I really believe that that line

385
00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:27,929
is implicitly known by these folks at an

386
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:31,020
unconscious level it's known and it

387
00:18:37,310 --> 00:18:34,710
scares them they resisted do you think

388
00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:37,320
it might be known at a conscious level

389
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:41,400
and is not crossed because the

390
00:18:50,419 --> 00:18:45,450
implications for social engineering

391
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:50,429
social control manipulation in either a

392
00:18:56,810 --> 00:18:53,610
positive or negative way yes I believe

393
00:18:59,180 --> 00:18:56,820
that ultimately there is the concern

394
00:19:01,450 --> 00:18:59,190
that if people really began to

395
00:19:05,180 --> 00:19:01,460
understand the power they have as

396
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:05,190
conscious beings I would believe that

397
00:19:13,580 --> 00:19:07,679
the powers that be would not want that

398
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:13,590
to be given full freedom so Jarrod had

399
00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:16,170
said a long time ago to me thought is

400
00:19:21,020 --> 00:19:18,230
the most powerful force in the universe

401
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:21,030
so if you can imagine people opening

402
00:19:26,030 --> 00:19:23,130
their thinking to other conscious realms

403
00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:26,040
I would see governments yes being

404
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:27,750
threatened to somewhat by people

405
00:19:33,530 --> 00:19:30,720
discovering that kind of power and it's

406
00:19:35,330 --> 00:19:33,540
funny I totally hear you and I am

407
00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:35,340
jumping ahead here but I can't resist

408
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:37,860
speak to responsibility that goes with

409
00:19:45,290 --> 00:19:41,450
the power well yeah that's a big jump I

410
00:19:48,380 --> 00:19:45,300
mean the Jerez message is we every one

411
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:48,390
of us each of us is a beam of light in

412
00:19:55,940 --> 00:19:53,490
our soul and that is in itself powerful

413
00:20:00,139 --> 00:19:55,950
that we are powerful

414
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:00,149
this whole Jerez view is that we come

415
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:02,970
and live our life times in order to

416
00:20:10,399 --> 00:20:07,200
awaken [\h__\h] and by that he's talking

417
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:10,409
about awakening to one's own power he's

418
00:20:15,409 --> 00:20:12,450
talking about the power of light the

419
00:20:19,070 --> 00:20:15,419
power of knowledge not not a power to

420
00:20:22,639 --> 00:20:19,080
use against others but the power to

421
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:22,649
create to be that that pure light that

422
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:26,570
you that we are so yes there is a

423
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:30,210
responsibility I guess I have to

424
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:32,330
approach it a different way and that is

425
00:20:41,269 --> 00:20:37,110
each of us born created with absolute

426
00:20:45,769 --> 00:20:41,279
free choice our responsibility is to not

427
00:20:48,009 --> 00:20:45,779
violate others free choice we have

428
00:20:50,690 --> 00:20:48,019
refree choice we keep that free choice

429
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:50,700
so these two in terms of responsibility

430
00:20:58,750 --> 00:20:54,480
is that we not violate others free

431
00:21:01,970 --> 00:20:58,760
choice but Jared will say that is in

432
00:21:03,620 --> 00:21:01,980
incarnations as humans we explore all

433
00:21:04,399 --> 00:21:03,630
kinds of things between the light and

434
00:21:07,159 --> 00:21:04,409
the dark

435
00:21:10,669 --> 00:21:07,169
that's that's what that's what Awakening

436
00:21:14,149 --> 00:21:10,679
is about responsibility isn't not

437
00:21:18,259 --> 00:21:14,159
violating others awesome and we did take

438
00:21:20,299 --> 00:21:18,269
a big jump so let's back up and let's go

439
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:20,309
right back to the beginning of this

440
00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:23,130
story because I kind of left a little

441
00:21:29,529 --> 00:21:26,340
bit of a cliffhanger there so you're a

442
00:21:32,779 --> 00:21:29,539
practicing clinical psychologist

443
00:21:34,669 --> 00:21:32,789
hypnotherapist and this woman who you

444
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:34,679
know because she works in your office

445
00:21:38,389 --> 00:21:37,110
but you don't know her that well comes

446
00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:38,399
in to your office

447
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:40,740
because she's overheard because you're

448
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:42,330
kind of an open-ended guy and you're

449
00:21:45,529 --> 00:21:44,159
exploring hypnotherapy so some of the

450
00:21:47,509 --> 00:21:45,539
guys in the office are talking about

451
00:21:49,370 --> 00:21:47,519
Robert Monroe and out-of-body

452
00:21:51,470 --> 00:21:49,380
experiences you haven't played around

453
00:21:55,639 --> 00:21:51,480
with that and she hears that and she

454
00:21:57,710 --> 00:21:55,649
sees an opening so she comes in and what

455
00:22:01,940 --> 00:21:57,720
does she talk to you about and what

456
00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:01,950
happens next well Katherine offered me

457
00:22:08,830 --> 00:22:05,159
an opportunity to have a session with

458
00:22:11,509 --> 00:22:08,840
the spirit entity that she channeled

459
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:11,519
how does that how does that conversation

460
00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:14,129
go how does somebody sit down with you

461
00:22:19,090 --> 00:22:16,110
and say I've been channeling the spirit

462
00:22:21,889 --> 00:22:19,100
and I he might be willing to talk to you

463
00:22:24,499 --> 00:22:21,899
well but something I never considered

464
00:22:25,730 --> 00:22:24,509
with everything I did but she came in

465
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:25,740
said she had overheard the conversation

466
00:22:32,330 --> 00:22:29,220
in the lunchroom and it brought back to

467
00:22:35,509 --> 00:22:32,340
her that as a much younger woman she

468
00:22:39,379 --> 00:22:35,519
hadn't experienced where Jared had

469
00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:39,389
approached her mentally and she she had

470
00:22:45,739 --> 00:22:43,289
shut it down and when she heard me

471
00:22:47,570 --> 00:22:45,749
talking about out-of-body experience and

472
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:47,580
these kinds of things

473
00:22:52,909 --> 00:22:49,919
she said she sat down again with her

474
00:22:55,489 --> 00:22:52,919
husband and went into her trance and

475
00:22:56,749 --> 00:22:55,499
Jared was right there she wasn't quite

476
00:23:00,460 --> 00:22:56,759
sure what to make of it

477
00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:00,470
so she approached me as a way to maybe

478
00:23:06,409 --> 00:23:04,169
validate or help her be clear on what

479
00:23:09,049 --> 00:23:06,419
exactly this Jared thing was and what

480
00:23:11,269 --> 00:23:09,059
happened and meanwhile she was offering

481
00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:11,279
me an experience with one of these

482
00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:14,820
paranormal or anomalous sorts of

483
00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:18,529
experiences so I was open i sat down

484
00:23:24,499 --> 00:23:21,720
what I had to lose you you're open tom

485
00:23:26,570 --> 00:23:24,509
but you know let's let's dive into that

486
00:23:28,879 --> 00:23:26,580
a little bit further because you're a

487
00:23:31,009 --> 00:23:28,889
smart guy you're thinking about a lot of

488
00:23:35,230 --> 00:23:31,019
things you're reading a ton of books so

489
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:35,240
I'm sure at this point you're also leery

490
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:39,090
skeptical careful about channeling

491
00:23:44,210 --> 00:23:41,970
spirits we've all heard this it can lead

492
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:44,220
to a lot of confusion at the very least

493
00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:47,460
it can lead to just misinformation and

494
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:50,940
being trickster door even worse kind of

495
00:23:57,759 --> 00:23:53,850
thing so as you approach this what kind

496
00:24:00,350 --> 00:23:57,769
of not just safeguards but how are you

497
00:24:04,399 --> 00:24:00,360
thinking you will approach this as a

498
00:24:07,159 --> 00:24:04,409
clinician well let me give an example of

499
00:24:12,289 --> 00:24:07,169
my first conversation with Jared what

500
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:12,299
and the case that came up and that was a

501
00:24:19,450 --> 00:24:14,369
fella I was working with he he was

502
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:19,460
around 40 and in trying to identify his

503
00:24:21,860 --> 00:24:21,210
subpersonalities out they were getting

504
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:21,870
in the way

505
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:25,440
I was getting communication from the

506
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:28,970
inner world and as I tried to pin down

507
00:24:32,930 --> 00:24:31,440
can i interject here with it with I want

508
00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:32,940
you to clarify something for me

509
00:24:40,610 --> 00:24:37,320
is it ideomotor signaling right did you

510
00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:40,620
go ahead and explain to people what this

511
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:42,809
particular kind of hypnotherapy

512
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:46,770
technique is the ideomotor response is

513
00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:51,210
an old old hypnotic technique and it is

514
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:52,740
a way of communicating with the

515
00:24:59,330 --> 00:24:56,159
unconscious through signals rather than

516
00:25:01,669 --> 00:24:59,340
verbal interaction so we want to put

517
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:01,679
people in a deep trance so we can get to

518
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:03,570
that deeper part of the subconscious

519
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:04,890
even though we don't know what any of

520
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:06,450
these terms mean we don't really know

521
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:08,250
what hypnotherapy is doing we don't know

522
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:10,049
what deep consciousness would be we

523
00:25:12,860 --> 00:25:11,370
don't know any of that but it were just

524
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:12,870
as a clinician you're saying hey this is

525
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:15,510
effective get to a deep trance state get

526
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:19,049
the verbal part of the whole brain thing

527
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:21,450
out of it and just see if I can get

528
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:25,679
really simple kind of signals right yes

529
00:25:34,340 --> 00:25:29,760
asking yes or no questions any signals

530
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:34,350
yes no stop or I don't know and this

531
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:37,049
technique using signals and I use finger

532
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:41,610
signals it is a very quick way to bypass

533
00:25:47,090 --> 00:25:44,850
the conscious mind get the verbal self

534
00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:47,100
out of the way so that the client

535
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:49,260
consciously is not responsible for

536
00:25:57,169 --> 00:25:53,730
anything I'm asking I am NOT asking them

537
00:25:59,720 --> 00:25:57,179
I'm asking they're unconscious mind so

538
00:26:02,720 --> 00:25:59,730
the ideomotor response is what I'm using

539
00:26:06,620 --> 00:26:02,730
with clients back then so you go to talk

540
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:06,630
to Jared and how does that go well it

541
00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:09,840
took a while for him Jared and I to

542
00:26:16,010 --> 00:26:13,380
develop a language and understanding but

543
00:26:18,409 --> 00:26:16,020
in that first session I did bring up a

544
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:18,419
case this one where I kept getting

545
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:22,710
contradictory answers and he gave me

546
00:26:28,490 --> 00:26:25,710
information and he said that there was a

547
00:26:32,139 --> 00:26:28,500
spirit presence with this client who was

548
00:26:35,049 --> 00:26:32,149
interfering with him and confusing and

549
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:35,059
that was

550
00:26:41,529 --> 00:26:38,570
bit of a shock to me but I did take it

551
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:41,539
back in the next therapy session with

552
00:26:47,950 --> 00:26:45,110
this man and I started asking questions

553
00:26:50,619 --> 00:26:47,960
as if Jarrod's information were correct

554
00:26:52,869 --> 00:26:50,629
that there was a spirit present hold on

555
00:26:55,090 --> 00:26:52,879
right there time this is a huge leap and

556
00:26:57,879 --> 00:26:55,100
you alluded to this at the very

557
00:26:59,049 --> 00:26:57,889
beginning of this interview that it

558
00:27:00,489 --> 00:26:59,059
almost sounded like you felt a little

559
00:27:03,879 --> 00:27:00,499
bit guilty that you went off reservation

560
00:27:06,659 --> 00:27:03,889
like this in terms of the normal

561
00:27:10,330 --> 00:27:06,669
protocol that's being used but I love

562
00:27:12,940 --> 00:27:10,340
the clinician in you in the way that you

563
00:27:14,980 --> 00:27:12,950
approach this is you are going to take

564
00:27:18,009 --> 00:27:14,990
this information and with all your

565
00:27:20,499 --> 00:27:18,019
training background and experience which

566
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:20,509
is very substantial at this point you

567
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:23,690
are going to test this in a real way did

568
00:27:29,619 --> 00:27:25,730
you worry at all at this point that you

569
00:27:31,629 --> 00:27:29,629
might be leading yourself into a state

570
00:27:34,029 --> 00:27:31,639
of where you might be deluding yourself

571
00:27:35,859 --> 00:27:34,039
when you go talk to your clients as I

572
00:27:38,379 --> 00:27:35,869
said I had been communicating with this

573
00:27:42,249 --> 00:27:38,389
client trying to the unconscious getting

574
00:27:44,379 --> 00:27:42,259
these contradictory responses but when

575
00:27:47,950 --> 00:27:44,389
Jared gave me this information when I

576
00:27:51,489 --> 00:27:47,960
went back to my client I was already in

577
00:27:54,430 --> 00:27:51,499
the habit of a question and working with

578
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:54,440
him before with all the contradictions I

579
00:28:00,450 --> 00:27:57,440
did not feel I was communicating all of

580
00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:00,460
a sudden with Jerez information

581
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:04,190
reframing it and asking the questions I

582
00:28:10,180 --> 00:28:07,610
began to get responses that made sense

583
00:28:12,580 --> 00:28:10,190
to me now let's make sure we're explicit

584
00:28:14,889 --> 00:28:12,590
about this reframing because as I

585
00:28:16,029 --> 00:28:14,899
understand it and again Tom please

586
00:28:19,749 --> 00:28:16,039
correct me because I might have

587
00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:19,759
misinterpreted things is that your the

588
00:28:25,060 --> 00:28:21,679
hypnotherapy technique that you're using

589
00:28:28,450 --> 00:28:25,070
this signalling you shift now from

590
00:28:32,259 --> 00:28:28,460
talking to the ego part of this person

591
00:28:34,269 --> 00:28:32,269
to a separate spirit entity that is

592
00:28:37,570 --> 00:28:34,279
somehow communicating through this

593
00:28:41,049 --> 00:28:37,580
person and that leads to it leads to

594
00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:41,059
what what does it lead to Wow now we're

595
00:28:48,850 --> 00:28:45,500
talking 32 years ago here I went through

596
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:48,860
communication with this spirit when

597
00:28:54,910 --> 00:28:51,650
klein wasn't trans but he was also

598
00:28:58,690 --> 00:28:54,920
consciously getting things coming to him

599
00:29:03,160 --> 00:28:58,700
and so he would intermittently also be

600
00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:03,170
reporting things to me verbally and he

601
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:04,940
could feel this he could feel what was

602
00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:08,960
happening and he also had his own sense

603
00:29:15,310 --> 00:29:12,049
that this was not him and so he was he

604
00:29:17,169 --> 00:29:15,320
was shocked as well i mean we both were

605
00:29:20,110 --> 00:29:17,179
shocked by this because he wasn't

606
00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:20,120
expecting it that's for sure so it was

607
00:29:27,130 --> 00:29:23,540
my first attempt to engage and

608
00:29:31,450 --> 00:29:27,140
communicate in a way with what appeared

609
00:29:33,850 --> 00:29:31,460
to be a separate entity and i felt that

610
00:29:35,770 --> 00:29:33,860
i received enough confirmation enough

611
00:29:38,740 --> 00:29:35,780
back-and-forth communication with this

612
00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:38,750
entity and the information we finally

613
00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:41,510
had is that it was willing to leave so

614
00:29:47,919 --> 00:29:44,799
it's not like i came out of that 100%

615
00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:47,929
convinced but but it had talked to me

616
00:29:55,690 --> 00:29:51,700
went for so many sessions it hadn't and

617
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:55,700
that was a step forward so that begins

618
00:30:02,950 --> 00:29:59,600
this process that you enter into with

619
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:02,960
jared where you were actually consulting

620
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:07,520
with him about clients and as strange as

621
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:10,250
that might sound and as for some people

622
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:12,770
it might sound unprofessional it might

623
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:14,090
sound like you have crossed some

624
00:30:18,490 --> 00:30:15,710
boundary there that you're not supposed

625
00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:18,500
to cross although again i would again

626
00:30:23,380 --> 00:30:20,840
take this back folks and say what

627
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:23,390
boundary do we think we're creating if

628
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:25,610
this is the greater reality and we found

629
00:30:32,020 --> 00:30:28,130
a way to access that greater reality and

630
00:30:34,930 --> 00:30:32,030
possibly apply good scientific methods

631
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:34,940
to it why would we want to hold off from

632
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:36,650
doing that for just some arbitrary

633
00:30:41,169 --> 00:30:38,240
reasons we've said but i don't want to

634
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:41,179
bury the lead here you as you document

635
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:43,520
in this incredible book that people need

636
00:30:50,250 --> 00:30:45,650
to really really get and and fully

637
00:30:53,289 --> 00:30:50,260
experience what went on here you get

638
00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:53,299
specific information from jared about

639
00:30:58,299 --> 00:30:55,809
clients that you're then able to use

640
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,309
clinically what was that process like

641
00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:00,080
I'm sure it was confirming to you we

642
00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:02,070
just talked about the first case but

643
00:31:08,780 --> 00:31:04,260
hundreds and hundreds of cases right yes

644
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:08,790
yes and I mean basically the after my

645
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:10,650
first session when Jared and my going

646
00:31:16,610 --> 00:31:14,010
taking it back to my clients I was so

647
00:31:18,740 --> 00:31:16,620
intrigued with this possibility I asked

648
00:31:21,410 --> 00:31:18,750
Katherine month later for another

649
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:21,420
session which he agreed to and I talked

650
00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:24,000
with Jared again this was really done in

651
00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:26,070
automatic writing it wasn't done

652
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:27,750
verbally talking with Kara

653
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:30,210
well after that second session which

654
00:31:34,430 --> 00:31:32,640
aired a month later I asked Katherine if

655
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:34,440
you would never know that one because

656
00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:36,690
this information was it just was right

657
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:39,240
on so about four months after I met

658
00:31:45,050 --> 00:31:43,410
Jared Effie and I agreed on forming this

659
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:45,060
collaboration with Jared

660
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:48,240
so I began meeting with Katherine once a

661
00:31:53,420 --> 00:31:50,730
week during the week with clients I kept

662
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:53,430
a list of questions on my legal path so

663
00:31:59,240 --> 00:31:56,010
I would write down questions about where

664
00:32:01,310 --> 00:31:59,250
we got stuck with the client or what was

665
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,320
happening but also wrote down

666
00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:03,840
metaphysical questions on that legal pad

667
00:32:08,990 --> 00:32:06,660
and then at the end of the week I would

668
00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:09,000
meet with Jared with my questions there

669
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:13,100
go over all of those I would go home and

670
00:32:19,550 --> 00:32:16,080
during the week I would transcribe that

671
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:19,560
session and take that information back

672
00:32:25,550 --> 00:32:23,130
to the sessions with my clients using

673
00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:25,560
that information with each of those

674
00:32:32,390 --> 00:32:28,740
individual clients then I would take

675
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:32,400
that communication that hypnotherapy

676
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:36,510
work and see if I could engage see if I

677
00:32:42,650 --> 00:32:39,450
could get a communication and it

678
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:42,660
happened over and over and that leads to

679
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:45,090
as we learn in the book it leads to you

680
00:32:50,510 --> 00:32:47,490
developing more of I don't want us to

681
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:50,520
say intuitive but an intuitive sense of

682
00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:53,370
what might be going on so your questions

683
00:32:56,540 --> 00:32:54,990
to Jared as we're reading the book or

684
00:32:58,100 --> 00:32:56,550
more pointed you kind of know hey I

685
00:33:00,320 --> 00:32:58,110
think this is going on and can you

686
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:00,330
confirm that rather than what the heck

687
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:03,510
is going on let's just stop there

688
00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:05,850
well there's kind of the process of

689
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:08,910
jared identifying something am i going

690
00:33:13,370 --> 00:33:11,130
and testing it out I mean you got people

691
00:33:15,530 --> 00:33:13,380
with past life stuff he got people with

692
00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:15,540
spirit attachments you got people just

693
00:33:18,530 --> 00:33:15,950
there

694
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:18,540
subpersonalities all these different

695
00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:21,650
clients I would follow up with him and

696
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:24,390
then take that information back in all

697
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:27,110
the different situations and see if I

698
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:31,290
could have ongoing communication but he

699
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:33,930
would identify something at first and I

700
00:33:39,290 --> 00:33:37,110
feel a need to bring in here that one of

701
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:39,300
the things he identified was that part

702
00:33:45,890 --> 00:33:42,570
of us sell ourselves that he called the

703
00:33:49,490 --> 00:33:45,900
higher self and that higher self

704
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:49,500
according to Jared knew so much of the

705
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:52,080
person's inner world was aware of their

706
00:33:59,230 --> 00:33:55,530
soul history was able to be a conduit of

707
00:34:02,480 --> 00:33:59,240
light for each of us in our present life

708
00:34:06,650 --> 00:34:02,490
this higher self became more and more a

709
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:06,660
central figure that I worked with when

710
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,210
each client that I would establish

711
00:34:15,649 --> 00:34:11,520
communication with their higher selves

712
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:15,659
now Jared has said when I and I explored

713
00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:17,810
this deeply with him about higher self

714
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:21,060
he pictured the higher self as though

715
00:34:26,990 --> 00:34:24,090
the soul projected a piece of itself

716
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:27,000
into the present life when the person is

717
00:34:32,990 --> 00:34:30,210
born and in projecting that piece of

718
00:34:34,850 --> 00:34:33,000
itself that higher self knew it was part

719
00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:34,860
of the light it knew was part of the

720
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:37,980
soul and it was for this person's

721
00:34:44,210 --> 00:34:40,530
lifetime living innocence a beacon of

722
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:44,220
light an inner guide and I began to work

723
00:34:51,110 --> 00:34:47,129
with that higher self to be a part that

724
00:34:53,740 --> 00:34:51,120
could explore and identify parts of the

725
00:34:56,990 --> 00:34:53,750
self that were in trouble grad problems

726
00:35:00,020 --> 00:34:57,000
to make it Eve to me even more

727
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:00,030
impressive the higher self could

728
00:35:05,660 --> 00:35:02,880
communicate directly to the ego space

729
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:05,670
the sub personality it's as if the

730
00:35:11,630 --> 00:35:08,250
higher self could go to where the sub

731
00:35:14,420 --> 00:35:11,640
personality was and communicate to it

732
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:14,430
directly and higher self could also

733
00:35:20,540 --> 00:35:17,130
bring that subpersonality the divine

734
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:20,550
light from the soul and from the Creator

735
00:35:26,030 --> 00:35:23,430
could bring the light to the sub

736
00:35:28,010 --> 00:35:26,040
personality and this is another one of

737
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:28,020
those confirmation things and I would

738
00:35:31,849 --> 00:35:29,130
tell you it's one of the most

739
00:35:36,859 --> 00:35:31,859
powerful I have worked with thousands

740
00:35:40,609 --> 00:35:36,869
and thousands with subpersonalities 99%

741
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:40,619
of the time once higher-self brought the

742
00:35:46,759 --> 00:35:44,250
light to a subpersonality it changed his

743
00:35:49,579 --> 00:35:46,769
attitude and his perception almost

744
00:35:52,789 --> 00:35:49,589
immediately it became agreeable with the

745
00:35:55,849 --> 00:35:52,799
healing process it became agreeable with

746
00:36:00,049 --> 00:35:55,859
heal sharing its trauma even though that

747
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:00,059
was painful when you see something like

748
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:03,690
that happened 99% of the power to me

749
00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:06,450
that's a scientific finding it's a

750
00:36:12,019 --> 00:36:08,910
consistent finding the significance is

751
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:12,029
out of the ballpark and but that still

752
00:36:17,029 --> 00:36:14,730
happens today now we have a bunch of

753
00:36:19,609 --> 00:36:17,039
skeptical questions that you just kind

754
00:36:22,930 --> 00:36:19,619
of raised let's get to code drill here

755
00:36:26,089 --> 00:36:22,940
so nothing nothing to be surprised about

756
00:36:27,890 --> 00:36:26,099
well one thing is you're gonna trigger a

757
00:36:29,089 --> 00:36:27,900
lot of people I hate that word but it's

758
00:36:31,809 --> 00:36:29,099
the right word you're gonna trigger a

759
00:36:36,289 --> 00:36:31,819
lot of people with certainly with divine

760
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:36,299
with God with Creator with even higher

761
00:36:43,299 --> 00:36:39,690
self these are all words that are highly

762
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:43,309
charged in our society and our culture

763
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:45,839
particularly because of the religious

764
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:49,410
connotations to them so Kent but as part

765
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:52,529
of the way to dive into that talk to me

766
00:37:00,049 --> 00:36:55,920
about religion and how you understand

767
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:00,059
religion fitting into what became your

768
00:37:04,549 --> 00:37:02,400
larger worldview your larger

769
00:37:07,609 --> 00:37:04,559
understanding of the extended

770
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:07,619
consciousness realms I basically think

771
00:37:10,940 --> 00:37:10,529
in terms of spirituality in spiritual

772
00:37:15,970 --> 00:37:10,950
realm

773
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:15,980
I look at religions plural as forms

774
00:37:23,029 --> 00:37:20,490
attempting to help humans come to know

775
00:37:26,329 --> 00:37:23,039
and understand their divinity their own

776
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:26,339
divine light their soul okay but let me

777
00:37:29,799 --> 00:37:27,839
interject a question here cuz I just

778
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:29,809
talked to a guy maybe two weeks ago

779
00:37:35,390 --> 00:37:32,640
terrific guy's name is David ditch field

780
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:35,400
he had this increase from the UK he had

781
00:37:39,470 --> 00:37:36,960
this incredible near-death experience

782
00:37:41,749 --> 00:37:39,480
where he was dragged under a train and

783
00:37:42,570 --> 00:37:41,759
you know left his body and he met God

784
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:42,580
and he saw

785
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:45,310
Jesus and he came back and he was

786
00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:48,400
meeting with with a person at a

787
00:37:55,230 --> 00:37:52,300
spiritualist Church who had abilities to

788
00:37:57,780 --> 00:37:55,240
see and understand these extended realms

789
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:57,790
and she said you met Jesus didn't you

790
00:38:02,550 --> 00:38:00,400
and he goes yeah I met Jesus and I was

791
00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:02,560
talking to David and I said what do you

792
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:05,320
think about that how do you understand

793
00:38:09,540 --> 00:38:07,810
that idea that you met quote/unquote

794
00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:09,550
Jesus because if we look for Jesus

795
00:38:14,610 --> 00:38:12,790
historically we don't always find Jesus

796
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:14,620
and if we look at what some people have

797
00:38:20,010 --> 00:38:17,530
done with her with their Jesus we don't

798
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:20,020
really feel so great about that and yet

799
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:22,330
this was he felt very confident that

800
00:38:28,650 --> 00:38:25,570
this was his experience in this extended

801
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:28,660
realm and that experience was mediated

802
00:38:34,590 --> 00:38:32,290
by a higher spirit guide that was

803
00:38:37,230 --> 00:38:34,600
interested in his good and it sounded

804
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:37,240
like it sounded all good he wasn't he

805
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:38,650
didn't come back and do a bunch of evil

806
00:38:43,140 --> 00:38:41,290
stuff to the contrary he came back and

807
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:43,150
seemed to be changed for the positive

808
00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:46,210
how are we to understand for example

809
00:38:52,380 --> 00:38:49,030
that guy's experience or millions of

810
00:38:55,890 --> 00:38:52,390
other people's experience with a Jesus

811
00:38:58,590 --> 00:38:55,900
that may or may not be historical in the

812
00:39:00,870 --> 00:38:58,600
sense that we think about you're asking

813
00:39:05,460 --> 00:39:00,880
big questions Alex see in the spirit

814
00:39:10,340 --> 00:39:05,470
realm of light where Souls exist there

815
00:39:12,810 --> 00:39:10,350
are spirit guides there are those

816
00:39:16,650 --> 00:39:12,820
departed loved ones and all of us have

817
00:39:20,460 --> 00:39:16,660
who have passed on those souls in the

818
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:20,470
light can also be aware of us and Jared

819
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:22,210
had said that from the beginning the

820
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:25,510
promise and he used the term light or

821
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:29,770
God that the promise was made that each

822
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:32,710
of us who incarnated every soul who

823
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:36,810
incarnated would have a spirit card and

824
00:39:42,930 --> 00:39:40,810
so my view is we all have at least one

825
00:39:45,780 --> 00:39:42,940
spirit guide we may have different

826
00:39:48,030 --> 00:39:45,790
guides during our lifetime and at times

827
00:39:51,870 --> 00:39:48,040
we may have more than one guide involved

828
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:51,880
with us so when we talk about in the

829
00:39:56,370 --> 00:39:53,770
near-death experience when we talk about

830
00:39:58,380 --> 00:39:56,380
people who are close to death and

831
00:40:00,900 --> 00:39:58,390
Hospice who are getting ready to make

832
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:00,910
transition they will see the part of

833
00:40:08,339 --> 00:40:03,490
family members come to them that is so

834
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:08,349
common and thing is in spirit realm and

835
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:12,160
at our unconscious soul level there's

836
00:40:18,410 --> 00:40:14,410
more that's known than we do know

837
00:40:21,359 --> 00:40:18,420
consciously the person who sees Jesus as

838
00:40:24,839 --> 00:40:21,369
opposed to the person who sees Muhammad

839
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:24,849
as opposed to the person who sees

840
00:40:30,839 --> 00:40:27,130
another kind of beam of light that

841
00:40:32,999 --> 00:40:30,849
presentation is for the person who's

842
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:33,009
having the experience hold on pause

843
00:40:39,140 --> 00:40:35,710
right there and tell me we've heard that

844
00:40:43,470 --> 00:40:39,150
we've heard that so many times tell me

845
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:43,480
specifically how that fits into what you

846
00:40:49,289 --> 00:40:46,960
learned working with your clients

847
00:40:52,289 --> 00:40:49,299
because there does seem to be a little

848
00:40:58,109 --> 00:40:52,299
bit of a disconnect for me in terms of

849
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:58,119
if this Jesus figure is because I've

850
00:41:04,829 --> 00:41:00,000
talked to him again a number of

851
00:41:07,019 --> 00:41:04,839
well-meaning spiritual people who have a

852
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:07,029
direct experience with Jesus which I'm

853
00:41:12,509 --> 00:41:10,000
always okay with but when I try and say

854
00:41:13,859 --> 00:41:12,519
well as I understand it you an

855
00:41:16,859 --> 00:41:13,869
experience with Christ consciousness

856
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:16,869
they're like no Alex you don't get it I

857
00:41:22,140 --> 00:41:19,839
had an experience with Jesus and it is

858
00:41:26,059 --> 00:41:22,150
Jesus of the Bible and that's just it

859
00:41:29,220 --> 00:41:26,069
and don't tell me otherwise I would say

860
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:29,230
that these beings who come to meters in

861
00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:33,730
different situations are conditioned by

862
00:41:40,049 --> 00:41:37,569
the person who's having the encounter if

863
00:41:44,490 --> 00:41:40,059
you grew up with Jesus and in your own

864
00:41:46,650 --> 00:41:44,500
mind and heart Jesus becomes a symbolic

865
00:41:50,370 --> 00:41:46,660
figure or not and by that I mean a

866
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:50,380
sacred symbolic figure for this person

867
00:41:57,569 --> 00:41:53,440
that figure is imbued with energy also

868
00:42:01,109 --> 00:41:57,579
and it makes connection to the spirit

869
00:42:03,390 --> 00:42:01,119
realm and when that person whatever the

870
00:42:05,339 --> 00:42:03,400
situation shouldn't happens that calls

871
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:05,349
for that kind of encounter especially

872
00:42:09,740 --> 00:42:08,170
near death or death itself or an

873
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:09,750
out-of-body trauma

874
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:12,910
Jesus may be the one and I'm not even

875
00:42:18,270 --> 00:42:15,520
sure that this figure comes forward and

876
00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:18,280
says on Jesus but it may come forward

877
00:42:25,170 --> 00:42:21,310
and appear to the person with their

878
00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:25,180
symbol is calling for I don't myself

879
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:27,310
working with people I don't need to

880
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:29,890
answer the question whether this beam of

881
00:42:36,660 --> 00:42:34,020
light is in fact Jesus personally

882
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:36,670
because there are all kinds of beings of

883
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:39,040
light who have come to meet the people

884
00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:41,050
I've worked with then there's all kinds

885
00:42:45,110 --> 00:42:42,940
of beings of light who came to meet

886
00:42:48,030 --> 00:42:45,120
these people with near-death experience

887
00:42:51,150 --> 00:42:48,040
so I guess I would say it's more

888
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:51,160
conditioned by what the person is ready

889
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:54,130
for or the way they perceive things or

890
00:43:00,240 --> 00:42:56,770
the way they need to see things in order

891
00:43:02,730 --> 00:43:00,250
to make the the contact but I think

892
00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:02,740
taking from your work and again I want

893
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:05,350
to emphasize this because it's like kind

894
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:07,450
of one of my main things I put up on the

895
00:43:12,030 --> 00:43:09,520
screen something that you wrote from the

896
00:43:13,890 --> 00:43:12,040
book so you're saying past lives as with

897
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:13,900
near-death experiences there are too

898
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:15,850
many reports from too many sources in

899
00:43:20,370 --> 00:43:18,490
too many reputable studies to just be

900
00:43:22,410 --> 00:43:20,380
flukes or fantasies we're talking for

901
00:43:24,810 --> 00:43:22,420
example about children who possess very

902
00:43:26,940 --> 00:43:24,820
specific past life memories and details

903
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:26,950
of people in places and events from

904
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:28,510
previous lifetimes that were

905
00:43:32,490 --> 00:43:30,970
investigated and corroborated in ways

906
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:32,500
that left no room for doubt

907
00:43:37,710 --> 00:43:35,680
now I shared that earlier on the screen

908
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:37,720
but I wanted to read that into the show

909
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:41,050
because here's where I go with that the

910
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:46,000
level one discussion is is that true can

911
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:48,640
we rely on the University of Virginia

912
00:43:53,850 --> 00:43:51,760
and Jim Tucker who did the follow-up

913
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:53,860
work from Ian Stevenson and compiled

914
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,530
thousands of these past life accounts

915
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:58,960
and published them in an organized

916
00:44:04,140 --> 00:44:01,440
systematic way and we're totally open to

917
00:44:07,650 --> 00:44:04,150
review and criticism and withstood all

918
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:07,660
that that's level one and you just stand

919
00:44:11,010 --> 00:44:09,130
up to anyone go well if you don't

920
00:44:12,510 --> 00:44:11,020
understand that I does nothing I can do

921
00:44:16,110 --> 00:44:12,520
there's the data yeah there have to deal

922
00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:16,120
with it or not and then level two is why

923
00:44:23,310 --> 00:44:21,430
are we conditioned and kind of led to

924
00:44:25,860 --> 00:44:23,320
look away from that

925
00:44:29,820 --> 00:44:25,870
if it is that salad as we said in level

926
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:29,830
1 but level 3 is what really gets me

927
00:44:34,980 --> 00:44:32,170
excited and it's the reason why your

928
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:34,990
book and the possibilities of your work

929
00:44:41,340 --> 00:44:38,770
get me so excited cuz level 3 says okay

930
00:44:43,260 --> 00:44:41,350
I'm really not gonna worry about just

931
00:44:45,780 --> 00:44:43,270
proving whether there's an extended

932
00:44:47,850 --> 00:44:45,790
realm which in your case is like hey you

933
00:44:50,130 --> 00:44:47,860
read mark Robert Monroe you did your own

934
00:44:51,660 --> 00:44:50,140
out-of-body experience you worked with

935
00:44:53,580 --> 00:44:51,670
all these clients it's like okay that's

936
00:44:55,890 --> 00:44:53,590
really an answered question I don't need

937
00:44:58,980 --> 00:44:55,900
to spend all my time just trying to

938
00:45:00,510 --> 00:44:58,990
debate with someone and then question to

939
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:00,520
you kind of said well I don't really

940
00:45:04,980 --> 00:45:02,590
worry about if what other people in the

941
00:45:07,590 --> 00:45:04,990
community are kind of thinking or what

942
00:45:10,980 --> 00:45:07,600
academics are publishing what she did is

943
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:10,990
said how can I develop a protocol that

944
00:45:17,820 --> 00:45:15,010
might be efficacious for helping my

945
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:17,830
clients move forward I think that is so

946
00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:21,280
awesome and so important and so unique

947
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:24,190
so I want to move into talking about

948
00:45:29,220 --> 00:45:27,130
your protocol because you have some very

949
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:29,230
specific things that you developed over

950
00:45:35,450 --> 00:45:32,290
time in terms of how to deal with people

951
00:45:38,130 --> 00:45:35,460
who are experiencing this trauma how to

952
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:38,140
deal with these different entities

953
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:40,720
however we want to understand them or

954
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:43,210
identify them and then in particular how

955
00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:46,450
to deal with the evil darkness thing

956
00:45:51,420 --> 00:45:48,640
which is the original reason I contacted

957
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:51,430
you and you have a very very important

958
00:45:59,370 --> 00:45:53,520
distinction that you make between

959
00:46:01,680 --> 00:45:59,380
darkness and evil and that's what I want

960
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:01,690
to get to next but I want to start out

961
00:46:07,260 --> 00:46:05,110
by talking about your protocol that you

962
00:46:10,170 --> 00:46:07,270
developed and why you developed it the

963
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:10,180
way that you did well I have to go back

964
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:13,410
again and emphasize the clinical nature

965
00:46:20,670 --> 00:46:16,210
because all of these start with the

966
00:46:24,090 --> 00:46:20,680
clients own story I look at my work and

967
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:24,100
with Jared is basically identifying

968
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:27,130
those things within or about a person

969
00:46:34,810 --> 00:46:32,050
that blocks the light from them and ego

970
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:34,820
states sub personalities are often

971
00:46:41,860 --> 00:46:37,250
[\h__\h] the light because they carry

972
00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:41,870
pain or hurt or fear or distress if you

973
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:44,510
bring them light they can refuse it

974
00:46:51,060 --> 00:46:47,090
because they are part of the soul and

975
00:46:54,370 --> 00:46:51,070
therefore they have some level of choice

976
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:54,380
well they often refuse this light love

977
00:46:59,890 --> 00:46:57,170
energy because it brings up their pain

978
00:47:01,690 --> 00:46:59,900
and if you're going to bring up their

979
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:01,700
pain you're going to have to be able to

980
00:47:07,150 --> 00:47:04,640
offer them relief or else forget it

981
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:07,160
don't bring up their pain just to have

982
00:47:13,660 --> 00:47:10,910
them be in pain so the protocol

983
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:13,670
developed for the ego states is make the

984
00:47:19,180 --> 00:47:16,730
contact communicate with them make it

985
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:19,190
safe for them to receive this light love

986
00:47:26,410 --> 00:47:22,330
energy once they receive it as I said

987
00:47:29,590 --> 00:47:26,420
99% say whippy I love this I don't want

988
00:47:31,930 --> 00:47:29,600
to be without it and then they will move

989
00:47:35,490 --> 00:47:31,940
through the sharing and release of what

990
00:47:38,430 --> 00:47:35,500
happened to them for a spirit attachment

991
00:47:41,590 --> 00:47:38,440
outside entity it's a different protocol

992
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:41,600
they don't belong with the person they

993
00:47:47,140 --> 00:47:44,960
need to leave and so again and working

994
00:47:51,220 --> 00:47:47,150
with Jared it was understanding how to

995
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:51,230
approach these spirits to gain their

996
00:47:59,290 --> 00:47:55,610
cooperation to leave my client and in

997
00:48:00,670 --> 00:47:59,300
the worst cases protocols designed to

998
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:00,680
get to a point where they could be

999
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:04,370
removed forcibly so that's a different

1000
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:08,240
protocol a Tom can you help me and help

1001
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:11,450
folks link those two because I think

1002
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:13,760
those two are also related in some

1003
00:48:19,150 --> 00:48:15,530
important ways that you talked about in

1004
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:19,160
the book in terms of trauma frustration

1005
00:48:26,980 --> 00:48:22,400
anxiety and this separation that we feel

1006
00:48:29,980 --> 00:48:26,990
can be an entry point for some of these

1007
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:29,990
other entities that come in and hang

1008
00:48:33,390 --> 00:48:32,210
around its disrupt people do you want to

1009
00:48:36,430 --> 00:48:33,400
speak to that at all

1010
00:48:39,310 --> 00:48:36,440
well there are there are a number of

1011
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:39,320
ways people might be vulnerable to

1012
00:48:46,660 --> 00:48:43,010
external intrusion or attachment or

1013
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:46,670
interference but one of the primary ways

1014
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:48,290
is through

1015
00:48:55,420 --> 00:48:51,930
personalities because subpersonalities

1016
00:48:59,720 --> 00:48:55,430
carry pain and stay away from the light

1017
00:49:03,980 --> 00:48:59,730
these outside entities can connect with

1018
00:49:06,890 --> 00:49:03,990
them through their pain as I said guides

1019
00:49:09,470 --> 00:49:06,900
the Higher Self can communicate ages or

1020
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:09,480
personalities well these spirits can

1021
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:12,480
communicate to them also and if they

1022
00:49:18,620 --> 00:49:14,730
find a subpersonality that they can

1023
00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:18,630
threaten or intimidate or trick offer

1024
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:23,369
them something that is an entree into

1025
00:49:28,849 --> 00:49:25,770
this person's energy through the sub

1026
00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:28,859
personality my head's one I think I

1027
00:49:32,690 --> 00:49:30,569
wrote about in the book one young kid

1028
00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:32,700
maybe twelve years old was offered a

1029
00:49:40,460 --> 00:49:37,140
knife a pocketknife by a spirit he took

1030
00:49:43,819 --> 00:49:40,470
that knife and felt now he could protect

1031
00:49:46,190 --> 00:49:43,829
himself and he was kind of stronger now

1032
00:49:50,569 --> 00:49:46,200
with its knife but it turned out that

1033
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:50,579
the knife was a device used to keep the

1034
00:49:56,539 --> 00:49:53,609
door open as long as that child kept the

1035
00:50:01,760 --> 00:49:56,549
knife he had connection to the external

1036
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:01,770
one so we had convinced him to give up

1037
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:05,040
the knife before we could break the

1038
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:08,130
connection with that spirit because as

1039
00:50:11,809 --> 00:50:09,839
long as the kid kept the knife he was

1040
00:50:15,980 --> 00:50:11,819
given permission for the spirit to stay

1041
00:50:18,650 --> 00:50:15,990
connected Wow I mean we could go into a

1042
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:18,660
full discussion on that for at least an

1043
00:50:26,569 --> 00:50:22,559
hour because it one it launches us right

1044
00:50:30,260 --> 00:50:26,579
into a Netflix streaming horror series

1045
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:30,270
that we all hear about and that's okay

1046
00:50:35,569 --> 00:50:32,640
because it suggests that fiction is

1047
00:50:38,359 --> 00:50:35,579
imitating reality in ways that are even

1048
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:38,369
more real than we dare to even think

1049
00:50:44,450 --> 00:50:41,280
about you have to read the book folks to

1050
00:50:47,319 --> 00:50:44,460
understand the process that dr. Zinser

1051
00:50:50,329 --> 00:50:47,329
went through here but it was kind of

1052
00:50:53,770 --> 00:50:50,339
painstakingly step by step as he talked

1053
00:50:56,660 --> 00:50:53,780
about meeting with a client taking notes

1054
00:50:59,569 --> 00:50:56,670
transcribing thinking about it deeply

1055
00:51:01,190 --> 00:50:59,579
then quote-unquote channeling this

1056
00:51:01,819 --> 00:51:01,200
spirit however you want to feel about

1057
00:51:04,459 --> 00:51:01,829
that

1058
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:04,469
and then going back and doing the hard

1059
00:51:09,019 --> 00:51:07,410
work with the client one of the things

1060
00:51:12,199 --> 00:51:09,029
that really came through in this book

1061
00:51:14,539 --> 00:51:12,209
that made me feel more confident of what

1062
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:14,549
you're talking about is you emphasized

1063
00:51:20,299 --> 00:51:16,650
over and over again that this is not a

1064
00:51:23,630 --> 00:51:20,309
quick fix 30 minute exorcism walk out

1065
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:23,640
like a new person it's more about the

1066
00:51:29,209 --> 00:51:26,640
journey that you are on your soul

1067
00:51:32,569 --> 00:51:29,219
journey if you want to use that corny

1068
00:51:35,059 --> 00:51:32,579
phrase and it's it's a process and you

1069
00:51:36,529 --> 00:51:35,069
engage in it and you keep moving forward

1070
00:51:39,229 --> 00:51:36,539
and you realize decisions that you've

1071
00:51:42,709 --> 00:51:39,239
made and you remake decisions and and

1072
00:51:44,959 --> 00:51:42,719
talk about the work if you would that is

1073
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:44,969
involved in this process both on your

1074
00:51:50,449 --> 00:51:48,089
part and on the part of your client I'd

1075
00:51:53,870 --> 00:51:50,459
have to say in terms of the healing

1076
00:51:55,099 --> 00:51:53,880
method itself it begins with basically

1077
00:51:57,410 --> 00:51:55,109
hearing from the client where their

1078
00:52:01,039 --> 00:51:57,420
difficulties are what the symptoms are

1079
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:01,049
what the struggles are the first thing I

1080
00:52:06,620 --> 00:52:04,079
do and I learned this from Jared is to

1081
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:06,630
contact what I calls the protective part

1082
00:52:13,099 --> 00:52:09,930
of the mind the protective part of the

1083
00:52:16,370 --> 00:52:13,109
mind is a part of ourselves that is

1084
00:52:18,529 --> 00:52:16,380
conscious in the present we think of our

1085
00:52:22,130 --> 00:52:18,539
conscious self as able think forward and

1086
00:52:25,279 --> 00:52:22,140
backward past future the protective part

1087
00:52:28,539 --> 00:52:25,289
of ourselves is a consciousness but it's

1088
00:52:30,739 --> 00:52:28,549
consciousness is limited to the present

1089
00:52:32,449 --> 00:52:30,749
it's not thinking about what we're gonna

1090
00:52:36,589 --> 00:52:32,459
do tonight or what we did yesterday

1091
00:52:39,439 --> 00:52:36,599
it's focuses in the present that's where

1092
00:52:43,039 --> 00:52:39,449
it's consciousness is when I work with

1093
00:52:45,380 --> 00:52:43,049
somebody I learned to connect contact

1094
00:52:48,799 --> 00:52:45,390
the protective part first to get

1095
00:52:51,739 --> 00:52:48,809
permission to go forward and work with

1096
00:52:54,289 --> 00:52:51,749
trauma I found out that the protective

1097
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:54,299
part was often the part blocking me

1098
00:52:59,689 --> 00:52:57,690
before I met Jared because the

1099
00:53:00,670 --> 00:52:59,699
protective part saw me as a bull in a

1100
00:53:04,459 --> 00:53:00,680
china shop

1101
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:04,469
bringing up trauma bringing up pain so

1102
00:53:09,140 --> 00:53:07,410
the protective part finally agrees then

1103
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:09,150
I will make contact with higher self

1104
00:53:13,069 --> 00:53:11,729
when I make contact with higher self

1105
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:13,079
there's a number of things in the

1106
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:15,910
protocol to make sure that you

1107
00:53:22,430 --> 00:53:18,490
is with her yourself and that it is free

1108
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,440
ourself is free to communicate when I'm

1109
00:53:25,260 --> 00:53:24,880
convinced to that when I'm assured of

1110
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:25,270
that

1111
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:27,280
then I will start with higher self

1112
00:53:33,390 --> 00:53:30,400
looking inside and start to review these

1113
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:33,400
issues or problems or symptoms that the

1114
00:53:37,620 --> 00:53:36,160
client has talked about and it's through

1115
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:37,630
Higher Self then that we will identify

1116
00:53:44,579 --> 00:53:41,410
and see if higher self can identify a

1117
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:44,589
source so if a person let's say has

1118
00:53:49,980 --> 00:53:47,040
intense anxiety panic attacks

1119
00:53:53,099 --> 00:53:49,990
we will ask higher self to look inside

1120
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:53,109
and see if it is able to locate the

1121
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:57,010
source of the panic attacks you may find

1122
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:01,200
by the time it's done six or seven

1123
00:54:06,210 --> 00:54:03,970
subpersonalities that are involved in an

1124
00:54:09,210 --> 00:54:06,220
anxiety pattern but from different

1125
00:54:12,030 --> 00:54:09,220
experiences you might find that there is

1126
00:54:14,550 --> 00:54:12,040
also a spirit present who kind of gets

1127
00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:14,560
all these sub personalities afraid and

1128
00:54:19,319 --> 00:54:17,710
upset you just don't know though this is

1129
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:19,329
gonna freak people out a little bit

1130
00:54:23,910 --> 00:54:21,970
right I'm sure you go to conferences and

1131
00:54:26,339 --> 00:54:23,920
meet with colleagues and they think it

1132
00:54:28,859 --> 00:54:26,349
sounds flaky I'm sure well I'm afraid

1133
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:28,869
this is part of that issue if you cross

1134
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:30,970
the line you're looking at a whole

1135
00:54:38,460 --> 00:54:34,210
different kind of reality and this goes

1136
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:38,470
back to so personalities also I came to

1137
00:54:43,050 --> 00:54:40,690
the point and work in my work with Jared

1138
00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:43,060
where I came to understand the sub

1139
00:54:49,859 --> 00:54:46,240
personalities at least in my mind I best

1140
00:54:52,829 --> 00:54:49,869
understand them as psyche beings they're

1141
00:54:55,530 --> 00:54:52,839
not just memories they're not just kind

1142
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:55,540
of associated States they are actually

1143
00:55:00,210 --> 00:54:58,240
psychic beings they're able to

1144
00:55:02,819 --> 00:55:00,220
communicate they're able to receive

1145
00:55:05,849 --> 00:55:02,829
light you're able to make a choice when

1146
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:05,859
you tell them they have a choice they do

1147
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:09,280
have feelings they're beans and the

1148
00:55:15,210 --> 00:55:12,400
issue is helping this B be relieved of

1149
00:55:18,329 --> 00:55:15,220
whatever pain or distress it has so that

1150
00:55:20,910 --> 00:55:18,339
it can join and integrate with the

1151
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:20,920
conscious self I know this challenges

1152
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:23,170
people because I mean talking about the

1153
00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:24,730
protective part is a different

1154
00:55:28,260 --> 00:55:26,670
consciousness talking about

1155
00:55:29,220 --> 00:55:28,270
subpersonalities as different

1156
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:29,230
consciousness

1157
00:55:33,210 --> 00:55:31,810
is of ourselves the higher-self is a

1158
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:33,220
different consciousness of ourselves

1159
00:55:38,850 --> 00:55:35,290
you've all different levels of

1160
00:55:41,850 --> 00:55:38,860
consciousness and our modern psychology

1161
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:41,860
wants a unified identity it is an

1162
00:55:48,570 --> 00:55:45,490
egocentric paradigm and when you get

1163
00:55:51,780 --> 00:55:48,580
past the ego they they just want to

1164
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,790
reject that so with that let's talk

1165
00:55:55,140 --> 00:55:54,160
about something really controversial

1166
00:56:00,500 --> 00:55:55,150
because we haven't talked about anything

1167
00:56:05,250 --> 00:56:00,510
controversy let's talk about evil and

1168
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:05,260
the darkness and this is a huge topic to

1169
00:56:13,140 --> 00:56:09,760
explore your book is very systematic you

1170
00:56:15,630 --> 00:56:13,150
methodically go through the protocol you

1171
00:56:18,210 --> 00:56:15,640
go through your experiences and how one

1172
00:56:21,420 --> 00:56:18,220
leads to another but one of the things

1173
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:21,430
that comes up in your work is that there

1174
00:56:27,660 --> 00:56:25,110
are some spirit attachments that are

1175
00:56:30,450 --> 00:56:27,670
basically based with confusion

1176
00:56:34,350 --> 00:56:30,460
the Spirit is attached and is harassing

1177
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:34,360
this person but it isn't benevolent in

1178
00:56:38,130 --> 00:56:36,250
the way that like you're saying if you

1179
00:56:39,810 --> 00:56:38,140
were able to connect with that spirit

1180
00:56:41,790 --> 00:56:39,820
and communicate with that spirit and

1181
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:41,800
offer them a better option which is to

1182
00:56:46,890 --> 00:56:44,530
go for the the light which is always

1183
00:56:49,260 --> 00:56:46,900
shining and and willing to accept that

1184
00:56:51,570 --> 00:56:49,270
spirit they go wow that really is better

1185
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:51,580
I'm sorry I was confused and stuck here

1186
00:56:58,440 --> 00:56:54,730
I'm ready to move on but then you

1187
00:57:01,020 --> 00:56:58,450
experienced some that were not you say

1188
00:57:02,730 --> 00:57:01,030
go to the light and they don't know I'm

1189
00:57:03,890 --> 00:57:02,740
like I know the lights there I'm not

1190
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:03,900
going there

1191
00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:07,510
we're distort about darkness really the

1192
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:10,390
reason I sent you the email I did

1193
00:57:16,770 --> 00:57:13,210
originally was about the distinction

1194
00:57:19,950 --> 00:57:16,780
between darkness and evil and we all

1195
00:57:22,650 --> 00:57:19,960
have to deal with darkness and Jared's

1196
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:22,660
information to me was that this physical

1197
00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:26,530
reality created by the light by the

1198
00:57:30,780 --> 00:57:28,510
Creator whatever you want to call it

1199
00:57:33,180 --> 00:57:30,790
made a level playing field between the

1200
00:57:36,890 --> 00:57:33,190
light in the dark and that level playing

1201
00:57:40,340 --> 00:57:36,900
field is what gives souls free choice

1202
00:57:42,180 --> 00:57:40,350
your understanding of evil though is

1203
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:42,190
truly you

1204
00:57:47,220 --> 00:57:45,520
and for me was truly revolutionary in

1205
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:47,230
terms of understanding some of the

1206
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:50,530
subtle ways that evil comes into play

1207
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:54,400
and interacts with that darkness going

1208
00:57:58,859 --> 00:57:56,799
from darkness to these spirits who have

1209
00:58:02,640 --> 00:57:58,869
entered darkness and operate from

1210
00:58:05,819 --> 00:58:02,650
darkness and have become evil in the

1211
00:58:10,049 --> 00:58:05,829
sense that it is their intention to

1212
00:58:12,900 --> 00:58:10,059
violate Souls and they can violate souls

1213
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:12,910
here in the physical who have incarnated

1214
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:16,960
and as Jared pointed out every soul in

1215
00:58:23,609 --> 00:58:20,770
darkness is a soul of light that light

1216
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:23,619
may have become very covered over very

1217
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:27,690
buried but every soul is a soul of light

1218
00:58:31,380 --> 00:58:29,680
let's really try and think of a case

1219
00:58:34,500 --> 00:58:31,390
because like when you talk about the

1220
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:34,510
case of the boy with the knife the 12

1221
00:58:39,390 --> 00:58:37,450
year old boy with the knife we get that

1222
00:58:41,700 --> 00:58:39,400
we like that's terrible

1223
00:58:44,010 --> 00:58:41,710
why would you do that why would you

1224
00:58:45,809 --> 00:58:44,020
create this false contract with someone

1225
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:45,819
which we've heard over and over again

1226
00:58:51,059 --> 00:58:48,010
people are convinced that they've made

1227
00:58:53,130 --> 00:58:51,069
some deal with Satan which again

1228
00:58:55,620 --> 00:58:53,140
historically there is no Satan but it's

1229
00:58:58,859 --> 00:58:55,630
free on some level we have made some

1230
00:59:00,180 --> 00:58:58,869
deal I've sold my soul and what Jared

1231
00:59:02,039 --> 00:59:00,190
tells us very importantly and it's a

1232
00:59:04,529 --> 00:59:02,049
very important part he says now there is

1233
00:59:06,930 --> 00:59:04,539
no such you can't sell your soul it's

1234
00:59:09,150 --> 00:59:06,940
just another form of deception that a

1235
00:59:11,789 --> 00:59:09,160
being that is attracted to the darkness

1236
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:11,799
likes deception likes to screw with

1237
00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:12,250
people

1238
00:59:18,089 --> 00:59:16,569
create these ideas that you have this

1239
00:59:20,549 --> 00:59:18,099
obligation but you don't have this

1240
00:59:23,250 --> 00:59:20,559
obligation it's a very important point

1241
00:59:26,490 --> 00:59:23,260
from your work so speak to that but then

1242
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:26,500
also speak more broadly to why why there

1243
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:29,650
is this connection to the darkness well

1244
00:59:35,370 --> 00:59:33,010
first of all as souls of light even when

1245
00:59:39,089 --> 00:59:35,380
they're in darkness these souls need

1246
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:39,099
light they need the light and they do

1247
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:41,410
not want to go to the spirit realm of

1248
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:43,089
light to receive it for a number of

1249
00:59:46,829 --> 00:59:45,609
different reasons explain some of those

1250
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:46,839
reasons because I think that'll help

1251
00:59:52,529 --> 00:59:49,119
people lock in what you're talking about

1252
00:59:54,660 --> 00:59:52,539
well there are souls that have died with

1253
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:54,670
tremendous feelings of guilt whether

1254
00:59:58,380 --> 00:59:55,810
it's because they've murdered

1255
01:00:01,890 --> 00:59:58,390
people where they've laid waste to

1256
01:00:04,620 --> 01:00:01,900
people betrayed loved ones there's

1257
01:00:08,460 --> 01:00:04,630
different reasons like that they were in

1258
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:08,470
war and became enraged and violent then

1259
01:00:16,380 --> 01:00:12,910
when they died in that state they may be

1260
01:00:19,260 --> 01:00:16,390
afraid of being judged afraid of being

1261
01:00:22,650 --> 01:00:19,270
condemned by this God they believed in

1262
01:00:25,230 --> 01:00:22,660
they may be angry at this God for for

1263
01:00:27,900 --> 01:00:25,240
what God allowed to happen so there's

1264
01:00:30,180 --> 01:00:27,910
something that originally separates them

1265
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:30,190
from the light their anger their hurt

1266
01:00:36,270 --> 01:00:32,890
their confusion but the issue here is

1267
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:36,280
that there are souls in in a hierarchy

1268
01:00:41,700 --> 01:00:39,370
of darkness they've been in darkness a

1269
01:00:42,690 --> 01:00:41,710
long time and they've learned to operate

1270
01:00:45,870 --> 01:00:42,700
that way

1271
01:00:48,180 --> 01:00:45,880
and in that operation they gather to

1272
01:00:49,740 --> 01:00:48,190
themselves these souls that have gotten

1273
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:49,750
into the dark and kind of confused

1274
01:00:55,530 --> 01:00:52,570
they're kind of floating around or not

1275
01:00:58,020 --> 01:00:55,540
sure what's going on these dark souls

1276
01:01:00,870 --> 01:00:58,030
that no more will in one way or another

1277
01:01:03,330 --> 01:01:00,880
attempt to untangle them and this is

1278
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:03,340
where what we would call the higher

1279
01:01:08,580 --> 01:01:04,810
level Dark One's

1280
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:08,590
are able to almost it is like a mafia

1281
01:01:16,290 --> 01:01:12,160
the Mafia is a very very good analogy as

1282
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:16,300
below so above I mean yeah yeah as above

1283
01:01:20,820 --> 01:01:16,930
so below

1284
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:20,830
but as below so above I just I struggle

1285
01:01:25,020 --> 01:01:23,440
with people who are like in the occult

1286
01:01:26,670 --> 01:01:25,030
communities or esoteric community and

1287
01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:26,680
have a problem with this or want to

1288
01:01:33,900 --> 01:01:30,430
explain it away or minimize it it's like

1289
01:01:36,350 --> 01:01:33,910
are you kidding just look on look on our

1290
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:36,360
planet look in the worst parts of our

1291
01:01:42,030 --> 01:01:39,010
existence as it is we see the same thing

1292
01:01:44,340 --> 01:01:42,040
we see hierarchies of evil we see people

1293
01:01:47,730 --> 01:01:44,350
to do horrible things and that grow

1294
01:01:50,490 --> 01:01:47,740
comfortable with that so that they don't

1295
01:01:54,450 --> 01:01:50,500
feel comfortable being normal and

1296
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:54,460
ordinary so to me you're incredible

1297
01:01:58,800 --> 01:01:57,010
exploration just was confirming that

1298
01:02:00,780 --> 01:01:58,810
yeah that's what I see here that makes

1299
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:00,790
total sense that that would be what's

1300
01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:03,970
going on in these extended realms well I

1301
01:02:08,780 --> 01:02:06,160
would say in working with clients where

1302
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:08,790
these kind of dark spirits were present

1303
01:02:14,690 --> 01:02:12,240
it wasn't trying to remove them or get

1304
01:02:18,290 --> 01:02:14,700
their cooperation to leave that we found

1305
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:18,300
that as they got closer to maybe

1306
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:20,490
agreeing to take delight they were

1307
01:02:24,770 --> 01:02:22,530
starting to be threatened and that's

1308
01:02:27,650 --> 01:02:24,780
when I would ask them are you being

1309
01:02:29,390 --> 01:02:27,660
threatened I would get a yes and what

1310
01:02:32,390 --> 01:02:29,400
turns out is they're being threatened by

1311
01:02:37,370 --> 01:02:32,400
those up above who want them to stay in

1312
01:02:39,710 --> 01:02:37,380
line or Ferguson oh yeah yeah and so

1313
01:02:42,860 --> 01:02:39,720
they're threatening them to keep them in

1314
01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:42,870
line and I have to work with those

1315
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:44,880
Spears to let them know that that's all

1316
01:02:47,900 --> 01:02:47,310
a ruse they don't have the power to keep

1317
01:02:50,330 --> 01:02:47,910
them in line

1318
01:02:51,980 --> 01:02:50,340
if these ones I'm working with want to

1319
01:02:54,260 --> 01:02:51,990
go to the light they have every power

1320
01:02:57,650 --> 01:02:54,270
and right to do that so you're kind of

1321
01:03:00,650 --> 01:02:57,660
breaking breaking the chain could you

1322
01:03:04,220 --> 01:03:00,660
think of a case when when that came came

1323
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:04,230
about I think we want to know what it

1324
01:03:09,020 --> 01:03:06,330
was like that that process of

1325
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:09,030
encountering someone was nasty

1326
01:03:13,790 --> 01:03:12,000
monovalent was completely destroying

1327
01:03:15,980 --> 01:03:13,800
someone's life or trying to destroy

1328
01:03:19,490 --> 01:03:15,990
someone's life but then you were able to

1329
01:03:22,100 --> 01:03:19,500
move through the process of moving them

1330
01:03:24,770 --> 01:03:22,110
to the light and maybe even in ways that

1331
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:24,780
that wasn't easy because again your

1332
01:03:27,770 --> 01:03:26,370
protocol is the first safe do you see

1333
01:03:29,450 --> 01:03:27,780
the light and then the next part of your

1334
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:29,460
protocol is say well you can't see the

1335
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:31,290
light okay do you see the light within

1336
01:03:35,690 --> 01:03:33,450
you and that's sometimes that worked and

1337
01:03:38,420 --> 01:03:35,700
then sometimes you bring spirit guides

1338
01:03:40,130 --> 01:03:38,430
or loved ones and say here would you be

1339
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:40,140
willing to talk to one of your loved

1340
01:03:43,190 --> 01:03:41,370
ones and they'll help you see the light

1341
01:03:45,350 --> 01:03:43,200
and then you keep going down the

1342
01:03:48,020 --> 01:03:45,360
protocol which is just get so awesome

1343
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:48,030
give us a case that kind of brings that

1344
01:03:55,340 --> 01:03:51,090
to life well I mean the clearest

1345
01:04:00,200 --> 01:03:55,350
examples for me Alex have been my work

1346
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:00,210
with cult victims call victims who have

1347
01:04:08,830 --> 01:04:04,050
been intentionally and in an organized

1348
01:04:13,220 --> 01:04:08,840
way abused for specific purposes and

1349
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:13,230
that abused is the intentional creation

1350
01:04:18,570 --> 01:04:16,410
of a dissociative personality when I

1351
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:18,580
worked with cult victims

1352
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:20,770
these kind of person many of these

1353
01:04:26,609 --> 01:04:23,650
personalities were created and many of

1354
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:26,619
these personalities were entangled with

1355
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:30,000
dark spirits and I could basically

1356
01:04:37,710 --> 01:04:34,210
understand exactly they cult active to

1357
01:04:39,900 --> 01:04:37,720
damage these children to create trauma

1358
01:04:43,230 --> 01:04:39,910
for these children to dissociate them

1359
01:04:46,260 --> 01:04:43,240
create a fragment so that these spirits

1360
01:04:49,290 --> 01:04:46,270
these dark spirits would have an open

1361
01:04:51,870 --> 01:04:49,300
door into these children and they're so

1362
01:04:55,410 --> 01:04:51,880
so you're saying what I've heard over

1363
01:04:59,550 --> 01:04:55,420
and over again both on this show and in

1364
01:05:02,730 --> 01:04:59,560
reading that some people in these cult

1365
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:02,740
groups and in these satanic cult groups

1366
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:04,450
where they label themselves as satanic

1367
01:05:09,150 --> 01:05:06,730
again whatever that means because it's

1368
01:05:11,070 --> 01:05:09,160
kind of a tricky word historically but

1369
01:05:14,180 --> 01:05:11,080
they've actually have a systematic way

1370
01:05:16,740 --> 01:05:14,190
where they say gee if we can create this

1371
01:05:21,630 --> 01:05:16,750
disassociation that is going to serve

1372
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:21,640
our goals at this extended consciousness

1373
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:23,290
level now I had never made that

1374
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:26,410
connection I had heard about it but I

1375
01:05:30,870 --> 01:05:28,810
had never made that connection until I

1376
01:05:32,970 --> 01:05:30,880
read your book and you're offering

1377
01:05:34,730 --> 01:05:32,980
confirmation about that that there would

1378
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:34,740
be a reason for them to do that

1379
01:05:40,410 --> 01:05:38,530
absolutely and some of them do know

1380
01:05:43,470 --> 01:05:40,420
consciously what they're doing and why

1381
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:43,480
they're doing it and they're kind of

1382
01:05:48,780 --> 01:05:46,450
allegiance to these Dark Souls there are

1383
01:05:51,420 --> 01:05:48,790
others who don't know they carry out

1384
01:05:54,359 --> 01:05:51,430
this kind of dissociative trauma for the

1385
01:05:56,250 --> 01:05:54,369
child in the belief Ren and for the

1386
01:05:58,920 --> 01:05:56,260
purpose of bringing that child under

1387
01:06:02,480 --> 01:05:58,930
their control so that in the future

1388
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:02,490
these abusers can control a

1389
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:06,930
subpersonality and and they have these

1390
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:09,730
techniques and methods developed to

1391
01:06:15,359 --> 01:06:13,210
control people in that way through their

1392
01:06:18,180 --> 01:06:15,369
sub personalities they're not

1393
01:06:20,849 --> 01:06:18,190
necessarily aware of the other level

1394
01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:20,859
where there are Dark Souls very involved

1395
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:22,960
but some people are some of these

1396
01:06:28,950 --> 01:06:27,010
abusers are aware of that level what is

1397
01:06:30,820 --> 01:06:28,960
the process been like in terms of

1398
01:06:32,650 --> 01:06:30,830
working with these people

1399
01:06:33,850 --> 01:06:32,660
and again I really appreciate that you

1400
01:06:36,190 --> 01:06:33,860
can look at this from a broader

1401
01:06:38,260 --> 01:06:36,200
perspective everyone is of the light

1402
01:06:41,770 --> 01:06:38,270
everyone has the ability to return to

1403
01:06:43,420 --> 01:06:41,780
the light people can get off the path we

1404
01:06:45,550 --> 01:06:43,430
have the whole past life thing to work

1405
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:45,560
into sometimes children are entering

1406
01:06:50,170 --> 01:06:48,410
into this because of some stuff they're

1407
01:06:51,940 --> 01:06:50,180
bringing from the past life again

1408
01:06:54,850 --> 01:06:51,950
complicating things can't ask a

1409
01:06:57,550 --> 01:06:54,860
straightforward simple question but I'll

1410
01:07:00,070 --> 01:06:57,560
go back to that first question then how

1411
01:07:02,470 --> 01:07:00,080
effective have you been able to be in

1412
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:02,480
terms of helping people overcome this

1413
01:07:09,310 --> 01:07:06,530
kind of really severe spiritual

1414
01:07:12,220 --> 01:07:09,320
interference spiritual disruption I

1415
01:07:15,850 --> 01:07:12,230
would say it's been very successful

1416
01:07:18,430 --> 01:07:15,860
it is very methodical and it's been very

1417
01:07:20,890 --> 01:07:18,440
successful because basically what you're

1418
01:07:25,210 --> 01:07:20,900
doing is working the higher self to find

1419
01:07:28,870 --> 01:07:25,220
any obstructions or interference of the

1420
01:07:32,140 --> 01:07:28,880
light that's the process have you had

1421
01:07:35,350 --> 01:07:32,150
clients in particular cult victims who

1422
01:07:37,870 --> 01:07:35,360
you've been able to effectively treat

1423
01:07:40,500 --> 01:07:37,880
and have told you gee I've been trying

1424
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:40,510
to work with this with therapists that

1425
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:43,520
aren't looking at this from a deeper

1426
01:07:48,250 --> 01:07:45,680
extended consciousness realm and I

1427
01:07:51,010 --> 01:07:48,260
haven't had any any luck is is that your

1428
01:07:55,030 --> 01:07:51,020
your understanding or what do you think

1429
01:07:57,100 --> 01:07:55,040
about that yes I feel like again

1430
01:08:00,430 --> 01:07:57,110
learning from Daron and going through

1431
01:08:03,730 --> 01:08:00,440
this which Aaron was able to learn the

1432
01:08:07,060 --> 01:08:03,740
the kind of ins and outs of dealing with

1433
01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:07,070
this kind of trauma and entanglement so

1434
01:08:13,030 --> 01:08:10,160
yes I believe been successful helping

1435
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:13,040
these cult victims basically break the

1436
01:08:18,730 --> 01:08:16,010
ties break the chains and connections to

1437
01:08:21,220 --> 01:08:18,740
these Dark Souls one of the things you

1438
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:21,230
have to say about the darkness that I

1439
01:08:27,220 --> 01:08:24,050
think is very important is that it is

1440
01:08:29,110 --> 01:08:27,230
there for a reason it is a part of our

1441
01:08:31,410 --> 01:08:29,120
growth and the way you describe it in

1442
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:31,420
the book is that all your clients

1443
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:33,290
regardless of the level of trauma

1444
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:36,290
they've experienced are moving into and

1445
01:08:42,329 --> 01:08:39,770
out of the darkness and the trick I

1446
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:42,339
guess is to maybe not get too

1447
01:08:48,089 --> 01:08:45,489
drawn into it or what would you say with

1448
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:48,099
regard I would and this is again one of

1449
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:49,810
these things about the distinction

1450
01:08:57,180 --> 01:08:53,199
between darkness and evil souls that are

1451
01:09:00,450 --> 01:08:57,190
evil do intend to violate us the

1452
01:09:03,689 --> 01:09:00,460
darkness itself would like to destroy

1453
01:09:07,109 --> 01:09:03,699
the light it would like to do that but

1454
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:07,119
the darkness has to in a sense of Bay's

1455
01:09:14,669 --> 01:09:10,409
of boundaries and it will not violate

1456
01:09:18,149 --> 01:09:14,679
those boundaries or else the light will

1457
01:09:21,599 --> 01:09:18,159
have recourse so the darkness in some

1458
01:09:24,689 --> 01:09:21,609
sense it might want to seduce you or

1459
01:09:26,700 --> 01:09:24,699
convince you or draw you in or or you

1460
01:09:30,180 --> 01:09:26,710
may want to make a deal with darkness

1461
01:09:32,490 --> 01:09:30,190
which will cost you but it won't come in

1462
01:09:35,879 --> 01:09:32,500
and violate because of the tries to

1463
01:09:39,599 --> 01:09:35,889
violate the light which is also a soul

1464
01:09:44,879 --> 01:09:39,609
it will have repercussions and and it is

1465
01:09:46,890 --> 01:09:44,889
aware of that unlike souls who do intend

1466
01:09:49,620 --> 01:09:46,900
to violate they are trying to take

1467
01:09:53,700 --> 01:09:49,630
another and take other souls energies

1468
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:53,710
and harness other Souls and use them so

1469
01:09:59,790 --> 01:09:56,050
the darkness won't do that it will

1470
01:10:01,800 --> 01:09:59,800
shelter the evil ones and it will draw

1471
01:10:04,169 --> 01:10:01,810
those evil one and this is probably part

1472
01:10:07,020 --> 01:10:04,179
of the problem it will draw all those

1473
01:10:10,620 --> 01:10:07,030
evil ones in darker deeper and deeper

1474
01:10:13,260 --> 01:10:10,630
until those dark ones really have no

1475
01:10:16,290 --> 01:10:13,270
sense of themselves as a light as a soul

1476
01:10:18,959 --> 01:10:16,300
they forgotten who they are the darkness

1477
01:10:22,050 --> 01:10:18,969
is more than happy to do that but the

1478
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:22,060
darkness is not an angry violent kind of

1479
01:10:29,220 --> 01:10:25,530
force it's just it just is what it is

1480
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:29,230
here's what Jared had to say from your

1481
01:10:35,070 --> 01:10:31,810
book so this is communicated to you

1482
01:10:36,629 --> 01:10:35,080
about the dark spot in all of us and

1483
01:10:38,700 --> 01:10:36,639
he's talking about suicide he said

1484
01:10:41,700 --> 01:10:38,710
people who are prone to suicide or

1485
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:41,710
contemplating suicide are usually locked

1486
01:10:47,250 --> 01:10:44,650
into that dark side they're not moving

1487
01:10:49,350 --> 01:10:47,260
well enough towards the light they have

1488
01:10:51,540 --> 01:10:49,360
stopped so much in that dark place that

1489
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:51,550
they can't get out it doesn't mean

1490
01:10:55,340 --> 01:10:54,400
they're evil it doesn't mean that they

1491
01:10:58,250 --> 01:10:55,350
are bad

1492
01:11:01,580 --> 01:10:58,260
it oftentimes means they have abandoned

1493
01:11:04,460 --> 01:11:01,590
hope and they'd let go of the idea that

1494
01:11:08,300 --> 01:11:04,470
they are purposeful and that they have

1495
01:11:12,380 --> 01:11:08,310
meaning do you want to speak to that at

1496
01:11:14,660 --> 01:11:12,390
all I think when we look today just to

1497
01:11:18,230 --> 01:11:14,670
somebody who has suffered a long-term

1498
01:11:20,260 --> 01:11:18,240
depression when you when you live in

1499
01:11:23,450 --> 01:11:20,270
depression you're living in darkness and

1500
01:11:28,370 --> 01:11:23,460
Jared defined darkness is the place that

1501
01:11:29,930 --> 01:11:28,380
lacks light love and knowledge he's

1502
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:29,940
sitting in the darkness there is no

1503
01:11:35,540 --> 01:11:32,610
trust these dark spirits don't trust

1504
01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:35,550
each other it's it's a network based on

1505
01:11:41,780 --> 01:11:40,080
power so living in depression can be

1506
01:11:44,210 --> 01:11:41,790
living in darkness it's not that you're

1507
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:44,220
bad and evil but you've lacked that

1508
01:11:49,220 --> 01:11:46,370
feeling of love maybe or that lack of

1509
01:11:52,550 --> 01:11:49,230
connection or that lack of connection to

1510
01:11:55,220 --> 01:11:52,560
a higher power or you've become you've

1511
01:11:57,590 --> 01:11:55,230
lost a hope about things you take a

1512
01:12:00,500 --> 01:11:57,600
young kid has grown up in a family that

1513
01:12:03,620 --> 01:12:00,510
we're one of the parents where both are

1514
01:12:05,450 --> 01:12:03,630
abusive and that child everyday has to

1515
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:05,460
be afraid whether it's going to come out

1516
01:12:11,630 --> 01:12:08,370
of that's living that's living in a dark

1517
01:12:13,700 --> 01:12:11,640
place so darkness is that place where

1518
01:12:17,660 --> 01:12:13,710
you don't have love and light and

1519
01:12:20,170 --> 01:12:17,670
knowledge living in ignorance living in

1520
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:20,180
ignorance that there's a darkness there

1521
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:24,690
when we learn we're gaining light so

1522
01:12:30,500 --> 01:12:27,330
darkness understood is the place that

1523
01:12:32,300 --> 01:12:30,510
lacks light love and knowledge we know

1524
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:32,310
there are a lot of people who live in

1525
01:12:38,570 --> 01:12:35,850
such a place for different reasons but a

1526
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:38,580
lot of it is trauma the result of trauma

1527
01:12:44,300 --> 01:12:41,250
Thomas we talked about earlier before we

1528
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:44,310
first started recording you've retired

1529
01:12:50,090 --> 01:12:47,570
from clinical practice you obviously put

1530
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:50,100
everything you had into it you worked

1531
01:12:55,490 --> 01:12:53,730
really hard at it you were very it just

1532
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:55,500
sounds like a great therapist for your

1533
01:12:59,630 --> 01:12:57,330
clients doing everything you can to help

1534
01:13:03,230 --> 01:12:59,640
them but that can be draining I don't

1535
01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:03,240
know I know it's there's a high dropout

1536
01:13:07,340 --> 01:13:05,280
rate and I think you went longer than a

1537
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:07,350
lot of people can in terms of helping

1538
01:13:10,310 --> 01:13:08,010
that many

1539
01:13:13,339 --> 01:13:10,320
people what do you want to do in the

1540
01:13:16,879 --> 01:13:13,349
future with what you've learned well for

1541
01:13:19,580 --> 01:13:16,889
me the main issue in learning all of

1542
01:13:22,069 --> 01:13:19,590
this and developing this method is that

1543
01:13:25,879 --> 01:13:22,079
it's the clinical method and so I would

1544
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:25,889
like to see it able to be practiced but

1545
01:13:32,089 --> 01:13:29,250
at the same time it is complex it does

1546
01:13:34,970 --> 01:13:32,099
go very very deep depending on where the

1547
01:13:38,359 --> 01:13:34,980
client is but I would like to do some

1548
01:13:42,470 --> 01:13:38,369
training and it would be in a kind of an

1549
01:13:46,069 --> 01:13:42,480
in-depth training I'd also probably like

1550
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:46,079
to do more speaking I do believe this

1551
01:13:51,830 --> 01:13:49,199
issue of accepting the spiritual

1552
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:51,840
dimension is of the utmost importance

1553
01:13:56,830 --> 01:13:55,170
today Tom one final question and it may

1554
01:13:58,790 --> 01:13:56,840
take a little while to sort this out I

1555
01:14:00,859 --> 01:13:58,800
hadn't really thought of it but I think

1556
01:14:03,819 --> 01:14:00,869
it's really important to my project to

1557
01:14:06,830 --> 01:14:03,829
the skeptical kind of thing and that's

1558
01:14:10,339 --> 01:14:06,840
where do you see clinical psychology

1559
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:10,349
fitting into this transformation that

1560
01:14:15,140 --> 01:14:13,170
people might go through in connecting

1561
01:14:16,970 --> 01:14:15,150
with extended consciousness because when

1562
01:14:21,049 --> 01:14:16,980
we step back we say well this has always

1563
01:14:23,629 --> 01:14:21,059
been the domain of churches very cultish

1564
01:14:24,770 --> 01:14:23,639
churches mainly what we experienced that

1565
01:14:26,930 --> 01:14:24,780
are more interested in controlling

1566
01:14:29,029 --> 01:14:26,940
people and manipulating people than

1567
01:14:31,580 --> 01:14:29,039
doing much else but it's always been in

1568
01:14:34,399 --> 01:14:31,590
their domain or now we have a kind of a

1569
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:34,409
shamanistic kind of thing or the magic

1570
01:14:36,859 --> 01:14:35,280
and occult realm

1571
01:14:40,009 --> 01:14:36,869
they'll tell you how to deal with these

1572
01:14:43,060 --> 01:14:40,019
extended consciousness realms do you

1573
01:14:47,029 --> 01:14:43,070
think there's something unique that

1574
01:14:50,959 --> 01:14:47,039
clinical psychology can bring to that my

1575
01:14:53,029 --> 01:14:50,969
feeling is clinical psychology is in the

1576
01:14:55,580 --> 01:14:53,039
same dilemma we talked about with others

1577
01:15:00,140 --> 01:14:55,590
and that is they're facing this line

1578
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:00,150
also and crossing this fly as I said

1579
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:02,690
earlier we have a very egocentric

1580
01:15:08,359 --> 01:15:06,090
psychology and psychiatry and we're

1581
01:15:11,149 --> 01:15:08,369
talking about something that transcends

1582
01:15:14,839 --> 01:15:11,159
the ego and when you start threatening

1583
01:15:18,529 --> 01:15:14,849
the ego like that with the loss of power

1584
01:15:20,570 --> 01:15:18,539
that it's not the end all and be all the

1585
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:20,580
ego gets pretty threatened

1586
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:23,130
so the soul centered approach is saying

1587
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:25,290
to the ego you've got a place you've got

1588
01:15:31,010 --> 01:15:27,570
a very important place in this

1589
01:15:36,350 --> 01:15:31,020
incarnation but soul from the soul level

1590
01:15:39,770 --> 01:15:36,360
you you are playing a part and when we

1591
01:15:42,620 --> 01:15:39,780
cross over if I were to say one of the

1592
01:15:45,550 --> 01:15:42,630
most important things today is for

1593
01:15:49,730 --> 01:15:45,560
people to understand there is no death

1594
01:15:52,910 --> 01:15:49,740
that when the body dies we basically

1595
01:15:58,010 --> 01:15:52,920
walk through a door into another level

1596
01:16:00,940 --> 01:15:58,020
of consciousness now the crossing over

1597
01:16:04,580 --> 01:16:00,950
you're going to cross over with the

1598
01:16:07,130 --> 01:16:04,590
mindset or the psychology you have when

1599
01:16:09,710 --> 01:16:07,140
you cross over there are people who will

1600
01:16:12,530 --> 01:16:09,720
see the gates of st. Peter there will be

1601
01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:12,540
people who have a heavenly kind of abode

1602
01:16:17,870 --> 01:16:15,450
to be in but I would suggest that that's

1603
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:17,880
going to be limited well that's full of

1604
01:16:22,850 --> 01:16:21,090
wakens to who it really is there are

1605
01:16:25,820 --> 01:16:22,860
other souls who are ready when they

1606
01:16:27,620 --> 01:16:25,830
cross over they're gonna move right into

1607
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:27,630
their soul consciousness they're going

1608
01:16:31,550 --> 01:16:29,760
to understand what just happened we're

1609
01:16:33,290 --> 01:16:31,560
going to we're going to understand that

1610
01:16:37,250 --> 01:16:33,300
lifetime in relation to the other

1611
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:37,260
lifetimes which it carries so so even

1612
01:16:41,930 --> 01:16:39,090
that crossing over has all the

1613
01:16:44,570 --> 01:16:41,940
individual differences but there is a

1614
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:44,580
soul consciousness I think that we move

1615
01:16:54,470 --> 01:16:48,090
into once we cross over and we're ready

1616
01:16:56,180 --> 01:16:54,480
to let go of this lifetime this body you

1617
01:16:57,740 --> 01:16:56,190
don't but in it that's a perfect place

1618
01:16:59,810 --> 01:16:57,750
to wrap it up I love what you said

1619
01:17:03,050 --> 01:16:59,820
particularly at the beginning there our

1620
01:17:06,170 --> 01:17:03,060
guests again our guests again has been

1621
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:06,180
dr. Tom Zinser his book is titled soul

1622
01:17:11,630 --> 01:17:08,850
centered healing a psychologist

1623
01:17:15,220 --> 01:17:11,640
extraordinary truly is extraordinary

1624
01:17:17,810 --> 01:17:15,230
journey into realms of subpersonalities

1625
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:17,820
spirits and past lives it's a book you

1626
01:17:23,390 --> 01:17:20,970
could easily get on Amazon right very

1627
01:17:25,610 --> 01:17:23,400
readable very well written he also has

1628
01:17:28,510 --> 01:17:25,620
other books up there for clinicians

1629
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:28,520
people who are hypnotherapist or

1630
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:29,690
clinicians trying to help these people

1631
01:17:34,150 --> 01:17:31,850
time it's been great

1632
01:17:35,890 --> 01:17:34,160
two hours I could talk for another -

1633
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:35,900
will you come back and join me sometime

1634
01:17:42,060 --> 01:17:39,410
in the future I'd be happy to I'm very

1635
01:17:46,930 --> 01:17:42,070
happy to have the time wishes down a

1636
01:17:51,130 --> 01:17:46,940
good hour to talk about strange things

1637
01:17:54,130 --> 01:17:51,140
and big things so it's thanks again for

1638
01:17:57,700 --> 01:17:54,140
having me well awesome

1639
01:18:01,420 --> 01:17:57,710
very very good truly truly remarkable

1640
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:01,430
work these things are never accidental

1641
01:18:07,570 --> 01:18:04,250
your email coming at the time that it

1642
01:18:10,780 --> 01:18:07,580
does publishing a book and the title of

1643
01:18:13,780 --> 01:18:10,790
the book is why evil matters how science

1644
01:18:16,870 --> 01:18:13,790
and religion fumbled a big one so this

1645
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:16,880
has gone right in the book well I do

1646
01:18:23,340 --> 01:18:19,250
think that is probably the bottom-line

1647
01:18:27,070 --> 01:18:23,350
issue is as Souls we have the choice and

1648
01:18:29,710 --> 01:18:27,080
evil does not run our life evil does not

1649
01:18:32,410 --> 01:18:29,720
have power over us evil cannot just

1650
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:32,420
waltz into our life without an access

1651
01:18:40,950 --> 01:18:36,410
and so as souls we do have that power to

1652
01:18:43,210 --> 01:18:40,960
deal with evil to stop it to refuse it

1653
01:18:45,190 --> 01:18:43,220
it's one of the reasons I said that

1654
01:18:47,770 --> 01:18:45,200
distinction between darkness and evil is

1655
01:18:49,690 --> 01:18:47,780
so important because people don't make

1656
01:18:52,870 --> 01:18:49,700
the distinction and then it gets all

1657
01:18:54,370 --> 01:18:52,880
confused I love that and I love in the

1658
01:18:58,270 --> 01:18:54,380
way in the book it really comes across

1659
01:19:00,790 --> 01:18:58,280
as not a kind of macho aggressive way of

1660
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:00,800
saying that because what I hear you say

1661
01:19:06,130 --> 01:19:02,810
that I think is so central and so

1662
01:19:09,220 --> 01:19:06,140
important is ok folks here's the basic

1663
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:09,230
structure it's light we're all part of

1664
01:19:17,230 --> 01:19:12,050
the divine spark it's in within all of

1665
01:19:20,830 --> 01:19:17,240
us so our natural state is to have likes

1666
01:19:23,470 --> 01:19:20,840
and dislikes that inadvertently not our

1667
01:19:25,540 --> 01:19:23,480
fault but it happens we block that light

1668
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:25,550
in one way or another and sometimes we

1669
01:19:29,350 --> 01:19:28,010
connect with those blockages more than

1670
01:19:32,260 --> 01:19:29,360
we connect with the light and it all

1671
01:19:34,810 --> 01:19:32,270
becomes a confused state but it's an

1672
01:19:37,270 --> 01:19:34,820
addition by subtraction thing removing

1673
01:19:41,140 --> 01:19:37,280
the blockages releases the light and

1674
01:19:42,250 --> 01:19:41,150
that's all we really want so what I hear

1675
01:19:45,570 --> 01:19:42,260
you saying then

1676
01:19:51,790 --> 01:19:45,580
is that now we can begin talking about

1677
01:19:54,190 --> 01:19:51,800
evil darkness as just blockages of the

1678
01:19:57,130 --> 01:19:54,200
light that of course you have the power

1679
01:19:59,080 --> 01:19:57,140
you always had the power to remove those

1680
01:20:01,690 --> 01:19:59,090
it makes them a lot less scary

1681
01:20:04,450 --> 01:20:01,700
put some in proportion not that we

1682
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:04,460
shouldn't be concerned but just puts

1683
01:20:10,750 --> 01:20:07,730
them in the proper perspective and and

1684
01:20:12,490 --> 01:20:10,760
we do need that we've grown up in our

1685
01:20:14,770 --> 01:20:12,500
Western culture to be frightened of

1686
01:20:17,830 --> 01:20:14,780
darkness and evil to think of it as so

1687
01:20:22,270 --> 01:20:17,840
powerful to stay away from that topic

1688
01:20:24,820 --> 01:20:22,280
for fear that it's gonna get us and that

1689
01:20:27,310 --> 01:20:24,830
only only gives it power for that kind

1690
01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:27,320
of thinking and people need to know it

1691
01:20:31,090 --> 01:20:29,600
doesn't have that power and I think

1692
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:31,100
what's particularly powerful and I hope

1693
01:20:36,790 --> 01:20:32,480
this came through in the interview is

1694
01:20:39,100 --> 01:20:36,800
this idea of the contract because that

1695
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:39,110
is not only a method of deception here

1696
01:20:44,140 --> 01:20:41,090
that seems to be in play but it's been

1697
01:20:47,229 --> 01:20:44,150
enshrined in our culture through books

1698
01:20:49,090 --> 01:20:47,239
movies as being you know don't make that

1699
01:20:51,550 --> 01:20:49,100
contract with the with the devil you

1700
01:20:53,710 --> 01:20:51,560
could never break it and what Jared says

1701
01:20:56,890 --> 01:20:53,720
and you proved in your work is that oh

1702
01:20:59,430 --> 01:20:56,900
no there's there's no such contract it's

1703
01:21:02,590 --> 01:20:59,440
null and void there it's unenforceable

1704
01:21:04,570 --> 01:21:02,600
just all we have to say I choose to go

1705
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:04,580
to the light and it's all over

1706
01:21:09,610 --> 01:21:07,610
that's right yes thanks again to Tom

1707
01:21:12,910 --> 01:21:09,620
Zinser for joining me today on skeptic

1708
01:21:15,370 --> 01:21:12,920
oh you know I could talk for a long long

1709
01:21:17,830 --> 01:21:15,380
time about this interview and if you

1710
01:21:19,810 --> 01:21:17,840
listened further to these shows I'm sure

1711
01:21:23,110 --> 01:21:19,820
I will I'm gonna be playing clips from

1712
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:23,120
this guy for the next hundred shows this

1713
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:27,170
is everything that I'm about everything

1714
01:21:34,270 --> 01:21:30,489
and I'm after right now is some kind of

1715
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:34,280
reasonably complete model for how these

1716
01:21:41,229 --> 01:21:36,890
extended consciousness realms might work

1717
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:41,239
and a suggestion a hint for how we might

1718
01:21:48,220 --> 01:21:44,690
actually I don't know test some of those

1719
01:21:49,990 --> 01:21:48,230
ideas out don't get me started but do

1720
01:21:52,900 --> 01:21:50,000
get me started with one question that I

1721
01:21:55,690 --> 01:21:52,910
hope you'll join me in trying to wrestle

1722
01:21:57,730 --> 01:21:55,700
to the ground and that is

1723
01:22:00,790 --> 01:21:57,740
what are we to do with channeled

1724
01:22:02,740 --> 01:22:00,800
material that's used in this way highly

1725
01:22:04,540 --> 01:22:02,750
controversial right I mean here's a guy

1726
01:22:07,510 --> 01:22:04,550
professionally trained psychologist

1727
01:22:09,460 --> 01:22:07,520
completely goes off reservation says hey

1728
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:09,470
I'm getting such amazing information

1729
01:22:15,310 --> 01:22:13,010
from this channelled spirit that I'm

1730
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:15,320
going to start using it in a methodical

1731
01:22:21,550 --> 01:22:19,010
way just as I would talking to some

1732
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:21,560
colleague I'm gonna use that in these

1733
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:25,610
clinical sessions what are your feelings

1734
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:28,610
about that is that's so out of bounds I

1735
01:22:32,230 --> 01:22:30,530
mean what are we to make it out what do

1736
01:22:34,330 --> 01:22:32,240
you make of that and I'm saying how I

1737
01:22:36,430 --> 01:22:34,340
think that's a tremendous leap forward

1738
01:22:39,010 --> 01:22:36,440
and maybe trying to understand this

1739
01:22:42,550 --> 01:22:39,020
thing is it a tremendous leap backwards

1740
01:22:44,590 --> 01:22:42,560
I don't know you tell me join me in the

1741
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:44,600
skeptical forum or otherwise drop me an

1742
01:22:49,570 --> 01:22:47,290
email and let me know your thoughts

1743
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:49,580
because I really do like when you come

1744
01:22:54,550 --> 01:22:51,050
over there and I like hanging out with

1745
01:22:56,740 --> 01:22:54,560
you all so please do so and if you

1746
01:22:58,300 --> 01:22:56,750
haven't responded a call check out the

1747
01:23:01,060 --> 01:22:58,310
skeptical for more over there we're

1748
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:01,070
having some good conversations about all

1749
01:23:07,300 --> 01:23:04,610
this deep deep big big-picture stuff so

1750
01:23:09,370 --> 01:23:07,310
join us over there I had a lot of shows

1751
01:23:11,770 --> 01:23:09,380
coming up I think some of them are

1752
01:23:14,620 --> 01:23:11,780
really good please stay with me for all

1753
01:23:17,050 --> 01:23:14,630
of that until next time take care and